John Smith wrote:
Michael:

It is weird, just to think it is the only book (well, there are a couple
of more, most mention a "God") which stands between a lot more crime and
immense degradation of society and not...

... as even I can see if there is no creator to answer to--then I am
free to murder anyone possessing great wealth and property and take it
for myself...


... of course I still wouldn't do that--but just because I want to "be a
nice guy." And, having studied human nature, I am afraid how long that
alone could stop me... perhaps till there was ten million dollars on the
table and I thought I could get away with it? evil-grin

It's called "civilization", John. Also "mutual benefit".

You don't need a Book to figure out that stealing is wrong, all you
need
is common sense. Theft does not create anything - only productive work
does.

A farmer does not need robbing bandits in order to live. But the
bandits
need the farmer - otherwise there's nothing for them to steal.

A society composed solely of farmers and other producers can exist. A
society composed solely of thieves cannot exist, because there would
be nothing to steal, and they'd all starve.

I think drug dealers, extortionists, bank robbers, serial killers,
rapists, child molesters, etc. may have already figured this out
though...

Nothing new about those kinds of folks - they have existed throughout
history. The smart ones figure out how to do their thing without what
they are doing becoming too apparent.

too bad really... looking back, the world did seem a quite a
bit safer when they were still living in "ignorance"...

When was that?

When people who didn't believe a certain way about a certain Book
were tortured and killed for their beliefs?

When wars were fought over interpretations of stories in a Book?

When "believers" argued that it was morally acceptable for some
people to literally own other people as property?

When more than half the population was rendered legally inferior
because of gender?

(lots more examples...)

IMHO, more wars, destruction, death and mayhem have been created by
organized religious/ideological zealotry than any atheistic thief or
tyrant could imagine.

There's a limit to what a bank robber will do to rob a bank, because
if the bank robber is killed or caught, his actions are obviously
pointless because he doesn't get the reward (money).

But there's no limit to what some religious zealots will do, because
even if they are killed or caught, they think they will get the
post-death reward, and there's no way to know if that's true or not.





"Michael Coslo" wrote in message
...


wrote:
John Smith wrote:

bb:

Or, have they torn those pages out of the bible, much in the
same way
gays have torn out the pages calling homosexuality an
abomination?


Which pages of the Bible do we follow, John?

Consider the first chapters of Genesis, where two different
creation stories are told. Both of them cannot be literally
true.

Weird, eh? The OT has more contradictory stuff in it than just about
anything I've ever read.

Only if you take it to be *literally* true.

Take Genesis, for example. The two creation stories contradict
each other. I think that's intentional - it tells us *not* to
take the stories literally. They're about ideas, rather than
history.

The idea that the descendants of Adam and Eve should be punished
for a crime they didn't commit doesn't make any sense if you
view it as a legal thing, like locking up someone today because
her Great Great Granddad robbed a bank. But if you look at it
from the standpoint that something people do today (like pollution)
will impact many future generations, it's a clear warning to think
beyond the moment.

Or read the story of Lot and his family's escape from Sodm and
Gomorrah. Not just the pillar of salt thing but his actions
towards his daughters and their actions towards him.

Kreepy and Kinky is all I can say on the matter. Yuck!

Yep.

Abominations? Plenty of them in the Bible - like eating pork,
or any scavengers (that means lobster too), or even rabbits.

Who decides which abominations "modern Christians" have to avoid?

I believe that the New Testament would be a good starting place. A lot
less of the thou shalts and shalt nots.

Yet the business about homosexuality being an abomination is straight
out
of the OT.

Except for the Sermon on the Mount, which is a number of direct
commands, most of which are routinely ignored by those who consider
themselves the most righteous!

What commands? The Sermon doesn't say "Thou shalt" or "Thou shalt not",
does it? Rather He explains how things work - the rewards for those
who follow His example.

73 de Jim, N2EY