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Old June 16th 05, 10:21 PM
I AmnotGeorgeBush
 
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David Hall Jr. (N3CVJ) wrote:
Yes, as we continue to become more efficient


at manufacture,


Whaaaa? Manufacturing is DOWN, not becoming more efficient.

.Down in this country.



Where it matters most.

It's growing strong in other places where it is


cheaper (Hence more efficient) to


manufacture things.


Yea, but that isn't "we". "We" is,,,,er,,,are the USA!

"We" still own many of the companies and still


manage the operations overseas.



Nope, "we" the people don't own ****..you are speaking of a very select
and elite group of private investors who do not by any means make up
"we" or represent the majority of the people in the US.


That employs people.



Sure,,overseas.

True, it requires a more advanced


management skillset, but the jobs usually pay


better too.

=A0

Ummm....no, that's why these manufacturing jobs are sent overeeas,
because they are cheaper.



The automobile pretty much ended the


demand for blacksmiths.


=A0But we shouldn't


blame the automobile for causing the demise


of the blacksmith industry. The smart


blacksmith went back to school and learned to
repair cars.


Blacksmiths were never a large industry and the position was never one
of those that most in a city were employed, rendering the example
fruitless and non-related.

.It's very much related. A particular vocation


doesn't have to be large to be relevant.


It does to be compared to an entire industry such as the steel industry
of which we were speaking.

The principle is the same, regardless of the


size of the industry. When technology allows


the reduction of manual labor, or the


obsolescence of a particular vocation, and a


savings in costs, should we not take


advantage of it? Isn't part of an individual's


responsibility to remain marketable?


The


blacksmith example highlights quite accurately
what happens when our society evolves and


old skills and crafts are no longer needed.


The loss of blacksmith jobs never crippled any towns or cities and that
was what we were speaking.

Again the scale of the effect is irrelevant.



It's very relevant in relation to the economic health of a town, city,
or vocation.


The principle is the same. When jobs become


obsolete, people must learn new current skills.
At the same time newer skills open up as a


result of advancing technology. People need


to keep up with the trends so that the skills


they posses are not obsolete.


That's one of the reasons why I still live where


I do. I was once contemplating a move to both
Florida and North Carolina. But the lack of


.diverse skilled jobs and much lower pay


scales pretty much nixed that move.


Lack of diverse skilled jobs?

Excuse me, I should have said diverse high


.paying skilled jobs.


When was the last time you checked the
stats? Florida has led the country in adding new jobs and has not felt
the inflation the country has felt the last so many years. The pay here
was always offset by the lower cost of living.

All that sounds fine and all, but the long and


short of it is that for the field that I am in, the


salaries offered were between 20 and 40%


lower than they are here. The employers there
(And I interviewed with quite a few) once they


find out where you're from, tell you right up


front not to expect a comparable salary.


Ok,,in the same manner you claimed one who lived in another state could
not tell you about Pa, what makes you feel you can tell a lifelong
resident of another state about their state?

Because I did some extensive research


So did Shark on your laws,

Says you.


No, says Shark.

I saw no evidence of that.


So it comes down to your personal core beliefs of when to selectively
apply your rules.

But please stay focussed.


but you stil claimed because one lived
somewhere else, they cold not know the particulars as well as one who
resided there.

Which is true in most cases.



Except in yours, of course,

when I was considering the move there 15


years ago.


15 years ago was another era in Fl.

Things have changed that much? Ok, I'll take


your word for it, since you live there.


I walked into a K-Mart and compared prices of
the things that I normally buy with what I pay


up here. My wife was especially knowledgable
about clothing prices.


It's not a myth, Dave. There is no state income tax and prices have
always been lower in Fl,,until recently (last 10 years).

Slightly lower in specific cases, like locally


produced goods like fruit and other food. =A0Yes,
there are certain costs which are lower in


Florida. The homestead exemption saves a


bundle on property tax. Homes are (were)


cheaper.



No more.

There is no state tax, and utilities are


somewhat lower.


Utilites are higher, especially electric, as the majority of homes do
not have gas.

Actually, when I was checking, I was currently


paying 15 cents per kilowatt hour. In Florida (


In Brevard County), the rate was about 8


cents per kilowatt hour. Water rates varied


depending on whether you had "city" water or


a privately owned "utility", but they were


cheaper by and large than what I paid up


here.


What do you refer to as a privately owned utility? You either have city,
county, or well water. I have city -and- a well.

Wells were usually used to water the grass.



And for agriculture, animals, drinking, bathing, etc.


The new homes I was looking at all had one.



Oh, THOSE type wells are into the water table just below the
surface,,that's sulphur water and as you say, used just for grass
watering.

What I meant by a privately owned utility was


a utility that was built by the housing


developer to provide water to their


developments. It's not owned or operated by


the city, it is a private entity. I understand that


after a certain number of years passed many


of these private utilities were sold to the city.



I'm not aware of any such utility being built by home developers here.


Heat was not an issue as most homes used


efficient heat pumps, which spent most of their
times as air conditioners. With insulation


ratings of R34 in most new homes, the cooling
costs offset the normal eastern PA winter


heating cost by a considerable margin.


Gas was only recently introduced as a choice for heating and cooking,
and even in most cities, it has to be trucked in (propane).

I prefer electric for cooking (When I'm not


grilling).


Not me. I hate it, but until we get gas lines, I'm not paying for
propane.

Personal choice I guess. I grew up with


electric appliances, so that's what I'm used to.


=A0=A0And heating in Florida is not normally an


issue, as you know. A couple of logs on the


fireplace will take the chill off on those few


chilly mornings.


Depends where you live. The top of the state, even from Ocala northward
use their heat all winter every winter. 30's is a bit chilly and a
fireplace can't heat the entire house.

I was in Central Florida (Brevard), and was


told that heat was a rarity for about a three


week span in January.




Yea,,,that would be about right, but it damn right gets cold in the
winter time, now. Never used to, but it does.



=A0Yes, many costs ARE lower to an extent. But


if you try to buy something like a car, gasoline,
or a major appliance or consumer good, the


cost is pretty mush the same as it is in any


other state.

=A0
=A0Again,,nope. Autos are not only in better condition (speaking of
used, of course) but new cars are somewhat cheaper here, so are most
manufactured goods.

Not according to what I found. I didn't bother


with used car pricing because there is a


certain amount of subjective perception.


(shrug) I go by NADA or edmunds.com perceptions, as does the auto
industry. Check resale and trade-in values.

But the MSRP of new cars there was the


same (or very close) as what I see up here.



I still say they are cheaper here. I've seen the SUV prices in the north
and they are higher. That's why when you check out a major car maker's
site on the net, they need to put in your zip code for pricing.

Sure, no one pays MSRP, but the degree of


discount is not going to be any more


significant there than here.


And Georgia is even cheaper.


Gasoline was actually more expensive back


then than up here. What do you pay for gas


now? Last week, I paid $1.94/gallon

=A0
Last week I paid 1.94 also. This week it's 2.03 but I haven't checked
gasbuddy.com in a few weeks.

I'm up to $2.04 as of today. But that just goes


to show that there isn't enough of a difference


in most consumer costs in Florida to justify a


30% reduction in salary.




I disagree. Quality of life is much better, at least for me. I would
trade for the weather...I need to see the sun daily.
_
=A0The exceptions are the tourist areas and coastal regions that are
developed. I can get a gallon of milk for 3 bucks here. I can get a
gallon of milk in Chiefland for 2.29. this is the norm, not the
exception.

I can do the same up here. Orange Juice is


$2.00 a half gallon (for the "Not from


concentrate" stuff). That's something I would


expect to be much cheaper in Florida.


It is, bit not in the stores. Go to the stands or groves.

And it's better there too. There's nothing


tastier than a fresh from the grove Florida


Orange juice.


We have vegetable stands too. Obviously we


can't grow citrus fruits, but we do tomatoes,


cucumbers, corn, lettuce and most common


produce. And it's cheaper than the stores


usually too.



Stores rape us on the prices for citrus.

Dave


"Sandbagger"