David Robbins wrote:
but Vmax and Vmin don't occur at the same location on the line. when
measuring Vmax and Vmin you have to look 1/4 wave apart on the line... so by
definition it is a distributed measurement so losses do matter.

The measured 'rho' at any *point* can be determined by Sqrt(Pref/Pfwd).
That means, for lossy lines, measured SWR increases toward the load and
decreases toward the source. An open-ended 400 ft. piece of RG-58 will
show a near perfect SWR at the source end on 440 MHz.
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73, Cecil, W5DXP