wrote:
Michael Coslo wrote:

wrote:

Michael Coslo wrote:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

wrote:

Mike Coslo wrote:

wrote:

http://www.getboost.com/dz/sienna.htm

But you see, here is what I'm thinking of. A computer with the RF guts,
and a laptop of some choice that plugs into the computer, and sets on
top of it. Many of the features now used in hardware could be handled by
the laptop. You would have logging, digital modes, dsp - probably not
important to you, but for a growing group of us, it would be great.

Been done. Kachina 505. Also TT Pegasus. Rigs without a front panel.

Not what I am describing.


Except for the form factor, it's exactly what you're describing.

The form factor, having several different pieces of equipment to hook
together, cabling, and different power supplies.


Exactly. You want it all in an integrated box rather than bits and
pieces.

Imagine a rig that has a 15 - 17 inch screen and a keyboard that
otherwise looks like a typical HF rig. You turn it on and use it.


The 'DZ is almost there.

As I see it, the trick would be to have the RF part as a lapper docking
station. The laptop makers do the heavy lifting on the digital end.

You arent going to use the Pegasus unless you plug it into a computer.

IMO, those things are similar, but in the same way that a transciever
and separate transmitter/reciever setups are similar.

In fact, I see this sort of thing as as a natural progression, just
like from separates to transcivers.


Total integration rather than boxes patched together.

Imagine some sort of HF transciever. Size
would be similar to what we use today. A laptop or the
equivalent would
be setting on top of the device. The laptop would dock into the
transciever. Functions would be controlled by the laptop.
Although
transciever front panel controls would be a possibility, the
ideal
method for what I am talking about would be all control via the laptop.


Except for the docking station part, that's what a Kachina was.
And a Pegasus. Computer did all the control functions, transceiver was
an RF modem of sorts.

This system would be much more highly integrated.

You might thiink of this as a system that someone would consider using
in their automobile. I doubt that there were too many mobile Pegasus
setups. 8^) Of course, I don't suggest using a keyboard while mobile!
But that is okay, the rig would perform all the other functions.


One big difference would be that the DSP/SDR would happen at IF from
the getgo.


This would not be a unit that needed a take-along computer,
or an LCD
screen, both with their own separate power supplies.
It would be a unit
that you plug in, open the case and "boot" the computer and
transciever.


All that's really changed is the form factor. And maybe the integration
of power supply.


I guess I'm having trouble making myself clear.


No, I see what you mean now. Rather than the computer and rig being two
separate entities connected by cables, they'd be one integrated unit.
Avoids duplication of function. Like in a transceiver where one set of
oscillators and filters does the job for both transmit and receive.

There were a few devices that touched on the idea, including
the
unmanufactured PSK rig by the Sienna people, and another PSK31 kit rig that sits outboard of a laptop.


You mean the Warbler?


But this would be a full featured rig, SSB, AM, FM, CW, RTTY,
PSK Hell,
and onaonaonaonaon. At least 100 watts output. DSP that is
upgradeable,
logging software, and whatever else you might do with the rig.


Right. Now who is going to bell that cat?

Oh, I imagine someone will eventually. I can't imagine that I'm the
only one begging for better system integration.


Fun fact: The earliest example of a true heterodyne transceiver I have
been able to find in the amateur radio literature was a CW rig made
from a BC-453. "True heterodyne transceiver" means:

1) The same tunable oscillator tunes both transmitter and receiver
simultaneously,

2) the receiver is a superhet

3) the whole unit is an integrated one-box unit (except for power
supply, antenna, headphones/speaker, and key or microphone).

What you're asking for is the next step - integrated rig/computer.

Yup! And it is kind of a scary-hairy step! But I think it is the sort of
thing that can revolutionize the industry.

The Warbler, the unmanufactured kit, and a lot of the others are
interesting, but they are toys by comparison - thats not an insult, just
an observation, because I enjoy toys too.

But the new Sienna HF rig is where it is starting to come together

I can well understand your dislike of the klugey nature of many
rig-computer setups. Two different big boxes (computer and rig)
interconnected by a bunch of cables, and a bunch of little boxes too.
Bulky and clunky and very unportable.

Meanwhile, there are excellent CW rigs like the KX1 that can be
configured to be self-contained (rig, battery, ATU, even paddles)
except for antenna and headphones. Toss up a wire, plug in the 'phones,
turn on the rig and you're on the air.

You'd think the digital folk would be ahead of that curve...

We're trying! Seems some people don't like our ideas though! ;^)

Who would that be?

Perhaps I exxagerate. But the earlier digital rigs were not total
successes. Perhaps they were just ahead of their time.

Seems to me the real problem is the divide between the digital and RF
worlds. On one side you have the folks who build "radios" - the digital
stuff is simply a way to get the job done. So you have dedicated custom
microcontrollers in the rig to run the DDS, choose bands, do DSP, etc.,
but they don't do things like word processing, logging, PSK31
interface, etc. On the other side you have the computer folks with the
neat software and generic hardware - but it's all external to the rig.

There does need to be a sort of meeting between the two. The digital
parts of radios are a tad new and strange (but cool) to me. I've spent
most of my life in the computer end of things. But the potential is
there, and waiting....

Weeohhh, I'm starting to sound like a cheerleader again - Brian is going
to have to come in and slap some sense back into me!!!!! hehe...


If the laptop were to become obsolete, say if a new mode came along
that required too much horsepower, then the unit could be replaced. A
mounting kit could be made available. In fact, a radio could be designed
so that you could attach your present laptop.


Remember the Warbler?

Yup. That's about 25 percent of the way there.



In any event what you're suggesting is a rig that is controlled by the
computer - an RF modem of sorts. Great if you like that sort of thing,
but they didn't sell all that well. Maybe times have changed.

Not completely. This rig isn't "controlled by the computer, any more
than it is controlled by the transmitter. cuz if either one isn't there,
it isn't going to work.


Can it be used without a computer or not?

Nope.


Interesting that they chose an LDG autotuner. This is a concept that
might be expanded upon.


It would be wonderful if ham rigs were like desktop computers in the
form of standardization.

Sometimes.


Why not? Look at what it's done for PCs. Why not for ham rigs?

One of the areas in which digital people often make a mistake is in
thinking that RF is the same thing as digital. That is why they
sometimes design skunks like BPL.


I'm not talking about using PC methods, just the basic idea. The rig
would have certain standard insides that could be made by a variety of
sources.

Example: Suppose we decide on a basic architecture with a given IF,
LO/BFO frequencies, power voltages, control signals, signal & impedance
levels, and form factor.

Once those things are set, the parts could come from anywhere. Want a
DDS VFO? All it has to do is meet the interface requirements. PLL? Same
difference.

It is an interesting concept. We wouldn't get all the advantadges that
the PC people would have, given that we wouldn't have the economy of
scale. But one *very* nice feature is that the homebrewers could make up
their own subassy boards.

I guess that should wait until after the warranty is over!!


The big problem is that somebody has to make up the standards, and then
the manufacturers stand to lose because people will buy a piece here
and a piece there.

Which is why the first rigs of this sort are almost certainly NOT going
to come from YaeComWood. It will probably be from a much smaller
manufacturer who is either a start-up, or a visionary.


did some snipping

That's due in part to lower interest rates, and in part to a big flow
of money from the stock market to real estate.


That progression indicates that a change has happened. A lot higher
percentage goes to putting the roof over the head. That's "okay", just
get another Credit card or two!


There are lots of other factors. For example, longer term mortgages
increase buying power.

For that house, they do. But the longer the term, the greater the
future impact. No free lunch. More house now by stretching the paymoents
out, the less capital available later


Of course. But people are living longer and working longer. Two careers
has become very common.

No doubt. Even so, to me it makes a lot of sense to live well within
your means, and to be sure that as retirement looms, that your bills
will be lower.


Two-income families, and
delayed family starts, have their own effects.

The biggest change is that RE values vary widely with
location. *Very* widely.


2) A house is one of the few investments an individual can
make that can be used without selling it.

If you do the home equity thing, you sort of have sold it.


Not at all! You still live there.

Kinda like renting, eh?


Except renters have *no* equity, and no tax breaks.

The money isn't free, yaknow. I have a relative who has
refied her
house ever time she could. She bought her place a
few years before we
bought ours. The house prices were almost the same.


The big question is - why did she refi and take the cash out? What
happened to the money?

To pay bills! Gasp!! NOt emergency ones either, Just everyday running a
gazillion Credit cards up to the max sort of bills.

A refi to pay for improvements can be a good idea. Say you take out
$100K for a renovation, but that renovation makes the house
worth $100K more and you avoid needing to move. That's a win.


We are almost
finished with our mortgage (15 years), and she's still paying, as every
time she refied, she reset the mortgage. Looks like she'll be
making
mortgage payments for her entire life.


Why did she cash out with every refi? I did the refi thing some time
back to get a lower interest rate and to shorten the term.

That bill thing. We also refied to lower the interest rate. There are
good reasons that you might refi of course.

I'm waiting for her to find out about the "interest-only" loans.

3) A house is one of the few necessities an individual can buy
that will almost certainly appreciate in value. Look at the
everyday
things you own - how many of them will be worth more
in 10 years?

4) Home loan interest is a tax deduction for most people.
What other debt reduces your taxes?

All true, Jim. and all used to get people to become "house poor".


What's the alternative, Mike?


Living within ones means.


Of course. But who defines what that is?

At one extreme, "living within your means" is saving up for everything
and never carrying any debt at all. Which means you'll be quite old
before you buy a house.

Whoah! I have several Credit cards that are paid off every month. So I
essentially pay for most things with cash, excepting the mortgage, and
the cars.

And I've found out a big secret. It is called discipline. When I was in
my early 20's, and just having gotten married, we had old furniture, old
cars, lived in a mobile home, and went without a few of the things that
a lot of young people simply "have to have." And after we got credit
cards, they were paid off every month, with the exception of the odd
month when the re was a big car bill or somesuch.

After 10 years or so, I noticed that many of our friends were divorced,
yet still paying off their CC card bought furniture and other stuff. I
knew that because they were grousing about it. Cool huh? I'm assuming
that many of the ones who still were together were doing the same.

Slowly but surely, we were buying new furniture - often with cash,
taking nice vacations - with cash, and doing other things that our
friends popped out the plastic for - with cash. Hard to imagine that
paying for 10 year old furniture is ever a good idea.

Do you know what the interest rate is for paying with cash? 8^)

I don't think the CC companies like us all that much tho'..


At the other extreme, "living within your means" is taking advantage of
every financial tool there is, to make debt work for you.

Yeah, another person we know is into that. He spends a lot of time
figuring out what to do, almost like a hobby for him. As far as I can
figure out, he just about breaks even.


Somewhere in the middle is the best path.


When we bought our place, we spent around
100K less than we were "approved" for. The banks thought we
were nuts,
the real estate people thought we were nuts (as well as making for a
smaller commission) Big deal - we bought a nice place, and have
discretionary money for investment and other stuff.


But you could find such a place. In a lot of situations, finding a
house you can afford is a real challenge.


And the dot.com
folks thought we were nuts for not investing in them, too.....


Yep!


Some people resort to living a long way from their jobs in
order to pay
less for a house, get away from CC&Rs and HOAs, etc. Trouble is, they
spend lots of time and money commuting, and are at the mercy of weather, traffic and fuel prices.

Sometimes it is just nice to not live in a city too.


Of course. Point is, it's a question of balance and situation.

Suppose A buys a house for $500K that means a short commute, good
schools, etc. B buys a similar house for $300K but then has to spend
hours and dollars each day commuting, puts the kids in private schools,
and has to hire out a lot of things s/he could
have DIT'ed except for lack of time.

Who is really ahead?

Well now wait a second! Does not living in a city mean that you have to
put your kids in private schools? Our so called rural area has a "world
class" school system.


BTW, those McMansions are becoming very, very hard to resell.


Not around here!

Interesting! My XYL, who works in the industry doing a lot of high-end
houses around here, notes that the people who have 500K to a million and
up almost always insist on building their own.


Where *you* are, $500K is high end. Around here, $500K is a 30-40 year
old 4 br 2-1/2 ba Cape Cod tract house on a half-acre lot that needs a
bit of work.

Philadelphia area right?


Philadelphia's Main Line. Where suburbia and commuting was invented
over 100 years ago.



No doubt that they are more expensive.


Exactly.

But 500K isn't really the high end around here.


Nor here. Check out realtor.com with my zip code. Make sure the
properties are in Radnor or Lower Merion school districts. Also make
sure they're houses where a ham could have an antenna, even if it's
just a G5RV.

(whining) But I don't wanna live there Jim! 8^)


And it will sell in a week.


As I said, all those "benefits" of owning a house convince
people to do
extrordinarily stupid things...


For me, "stupid" is putting that kind of money into a house in a place
where the ground shakes every so often. Or the hurricanes come in and
wipe everything out.

No doubt. But then again, I realize that my financial outlook is just
about 180 degrees out of synch with most other people. Different
strokes-different folks..

- Mike KB3EIA -