-=jd=- wrote:
On Sat 30 Jul 2005 08:14:43a, "Doug Reese" wrote in
message oups.com:


-=jd=- wrote:
On Wed 27 Jul 2005 07:16:15a, dxAce wrote in
message :



Doug Reese wrote:

-=jd=- wrote:
On Tue 26 Jul 2005 09:06:21a, "Doug Reese"
wrote in message
oups.com:



dxAce wrote:
Doug Reese wrote:

dxAce wrote:
David wrote:

On Sat, 16 Jul 2005 18:40:39 -0500, "Brian Hill"
wrote:



Democrats are pussies! They don't know how fight.

B.H.

Senator John Kerry, Lt., U.S. Navy 1966-70; Silver Star,
Bronze Star with Combat V, and three awards of the Purple
Heart for his service in combat (1)

Faked! And he still owes us not only service time but also
jail time!

Faked?

Yes.

Which ones?

Apparently several of them!!

And you would know that . . how?

By paying attention to detail.

Good, then if you've paid attention, please do better than
"several of them". Which ones? And while you're at it, what
about them was "faked"?

I look forward to your reply.

Something you yourself have apparently failed to do.

Boy, you got me there. I guess I'll have to wait for your
detailed reply, with which you will really put me in my place.




That Silver Star with "V" reeks of some shenanigans...

No it doesn't. Asd I mentioned in an earlier reply, he wasn't
awarded a Silver Star with "V". That's just what a clerk incorrectly
typed up on his DD-214.

The award, and the citation, have no "V".

Even without the "V" it still reeks of shenanigans... as do most of
his medals.

And Kerry DID have that DD-214 up on his website with NO explanation
about the "V". Why? Because he thought we were all suckers, that's
why.

Guess what? We're not all suckers, and John 'Fraud' Kerry,
thankfully, went down in defeat.

Get over it, 'tard boy.

dxAce
Michigan
USA



Furthermore, the shenanigans that immediately come to mind is a semi-
knowledgeable John Kerry typing up his own award paperwork, not
realizing that the Silver-Star does not accommodate the "V" device.

Sorry, but that's not the way it works, nor is it the way it worked in
this instance.



Other than Kerry, no-one knows how it worked in that particular incidence.


Let me be specific.
The actual medal/ribbon didn't have a "V".
The actual citation does not have a "V".
The ONLY thing that has a "V" on it is his DD-214.


I did not say anything else had the "V". I was speaking to the context of
your post, which referenced the DD214.

OK then. Are you saying Kerry typed up his own DD-214? I don't believe
you are.

People wanted to see Kerry's records. He posted many of them, including
his DD-214. It had an error -- the "V" -- so what? Mine has the wrong
birthdate. So what?

This was so blatantly off-base as far as the Swift Boat Veterans for
"truth" were concerned, that they didn't bother to comment when this
hit the "news".

He was put in for the award by Admiral Zumwalt.



Are you asserting that Adm Zumwalt prepared the paperwork himself? He may
have formally signed it and sent it up the chain, but the question remains,
who prepared that particular OPNAV 1650/3? Apparently, only John F. Kerry
knows for sure.

Ahh, here's where we may have a problem/misunderstanding. It was NOT
sent up the chain. It was issued by Zumwalt's office. And this is
apparently the reason for it being too long, and containing somewhat
less flowery language than most such citations. An assumption on my
part -- The person who prepared the citation usually didn't do that
sort of thing.

Up until just before that incident, a SS had to be approved by the
SECNAV. That rule was changed, allowing people like Zumwalt to quickly
issue these "impact awards".

As I think you know, the incident happened Feb 28, 1969. The medal was
awarded something like March 6.

Then there are three citations, all made at demonstrably different times
and by different parties, for the award.

I know. And each of these two subsequent citations are shorter and
contain less detail than the original. They also contain language which
is not true. This language is found nowhere else -- not in the
after-action reports, nor is it something that anyone present has
claimed. ("intense automatic weapons fire", and "numerically superior
enemy force")

"...Although Citation 2 also is undated, we can still ascertain when it was
issued. Kerry's first citation was for action on February 28, 1969, so
Citation 2 had to be issued some time after that, but probably not
immediately. Citation 2 was signed by Admiral John J. Hyland, as Commander
in Chief of the Pacific Fleet, who no longer served in that capacity after
December 5, 1970. Thus, Kerry's second citation had to have been issued
some time between February 29, 1969 (following Citation 1) and December 5,
1970 (when Hyland was no longer CINCPAC). Significantly, Kerry left
Vietnam in "early 1969" (his website's timeline) and was separated from
service on March 1, 1970. This means that it is likely Citation 2 was
issued some time in the almost two years after his departure from Vietnam
but before late 1970-when he was back in the United States..."

"...Citation 3, like Citations 1 and 2, is undated. But, again, we can
narrow the time frame, since it was signed by John Lehman as Secretary of
the Navy. Lehman served from February1981 to April 1987-long after Kerry
left Vietnam, long after he was separated from service, and during Kerry's
tenure as a United States Senator..."

What little I know about this is that sometime back in the mid-80's,
Kerry requested a copy of his citation.

Then we have SECNAV Lehman saying this about where Kerry's SS Citation came
from: "It is a total mystery to me. I never saw it. I never signed it. I
never approved it. And the additional language it contains was not written
by me."

Of course he didn't write it. Why would he? Don't they have clerks for
that sort of thing? (Serious question, as you seem to know more about
the process than I).

{http://www.papillonsartpalace.com/johkpn.htm}

There's no question that the incident, as Kerry described in the
after-action report, happened. It is the same as those who were there
that day described.


Oh my word! In addition to the obvious questions raised by the snips above,
there are plenty of other questions that are begged.

I'm not quite sure what you mean. I'm saying that for the SS incident,
the after-action report, the original citation, and what those of us
there that day have said happened . . . pretty much match.

Then it was
(figuratively) rubber-stamped through the pipeline. If that was the
actual case, and it appears it very well could be, then that could
explain how/why your "Brain-Dead-Clerk" simply shrugged and just typed
whatever was on the award paperwork. That is more plausible than
believing that a PERSCOM clerk, presumably processing hundreds, if not
thousands of awards during that time-frame, all of a sudden decided to
arbitrarily add the "V" device to a Silver-Star.

It was NOT an awards clerk, but a clerk who types/processes DD-214s.

Doug



Who said it was an awards clerk (other than yourself)? I said it was a
PERSCOM clerk. You *DO* know what a PERSCOM clerk does, don't you?

No, I don't know. Perhaps I never knew. Why would I know, or for that
matter, care?

I am simply saying that the person who typed uphis DD-214 made a
mistake.

Doug

-=jd=-
--
My Current Disposable Email:

(Remove YOUR HAT to reply directly)