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Old August 5th 05, 06:42 PM
an old friend
Posts: n/a

an old friend wrote:
an old friend wrote:

and you spport the Morse code test and therefore you opose me on the
field at all

Not you personally.

yes you mean me personaly

in supporting the current system and its predeceasor you personaly
oppose me and anyone like me

your statement "Nothing personal" is dishonest

I also support written tests. There are folks I know who have
repeatedly flunked the written tests - something about "math
trouble" - "never been good with numbers and rote memorization"

and I oppose there being real math on the test since it isn't needed in
this day and age

the only realy rote memorizetion pretains to the rules and the rules
are of ocourse to some arbitaru

Why should they have to learn all that stuff?

and much of it, they should not have too at least with it they some
choice I have elsewhere outlined my thoughts

VEs are empowered to use all sorts of accomodations in the
tests (both written and Morse Code) if needed. In fact, a Morse
Code *sending* test can be substituted.

which doesn't meet the ADA standards of accomodation at all, since that
law allows me anything that will in fact work, my choice would be a
code reader

ADA is about rights. A ham radio license is a privilege.

Bull**** what do you know of the ADA?

ADA says In part and oversimplfies of course I have the RIGHT that any
barrair in my way (wether oof a RIGHT or aPrevldege I can earn) be
justified. It is a prevledge to have a drivers license, therefore
anything in the way of applaicnt must be justified, a blind man can't
drive, therefore ADA doesn't help, someone with NO morse Skill can
still operate a radio, therefore he has the right that any barrar be
truely needed

Have you ever asked the VEs for any accomodations?

can't you read.

I have taken and FAILED test sent A LETTER at a time I have done so on
number of occasions

based my expeences in the past that is about all that would do it

However that aside you insist I develope some varraint of a skill that
I can't use.

Can't or won't?


proven many times

My station is at least one if not several such tool but you
don't wish to allow it without ahvng that ONE tool

I have no idea what you are trying to say.

becuase you think Morse code is just a trival bit of work to learn, and
for some it is

For some the written tests are trivial, for others they are not.
Shall they be eliminated because some people can't seem to pass them?

you just are not reading or thinking Jim

and lacking that skill you would choose to sideline my station which is
able right now to work HF (I have up a G5RV conected to my ft 847
satelite rig which is also HF cappable

If someone buys a rig and sets up an antenna, does that give them the
right to demand a license?

no and your question is nonsense, and insulting

anyone has the RIGHT that any barrair in their way be fair after all I
can even operate with Morse code which the purpose of the test I can't

It is one the few occasion I can realy see much use
in the mode during an emergency gives the user the low signal abilities
of RTTY or PSK 31 but allowing the station in the affected area to
despense with a PC

If the operators know Morse Code, there's no reason for a PC at either station.

agreed but so what

A tool that is with someone always is the most useful.

The above noted for later reference as "A"

but only if it is ever with that person. even if through some
accomdated test I passed it I would not have a tool to use

So? Doesn't change the fact that a tool that is with someone always is
the most useful.

and you miss the point

this doesn't justify keeping me from being there and using my
sation to help the pcles staion

No one is saying you cannot use a PC for Morse Code.

but you are supporting not allowing me access to specturm

I am supporting Morse Code testing. Also written testing. It's not
about you personally.

you are lying

your statement is dishonest

Thus it is 'better" in some ways, indeed I am a much better operator of
computer morse than manual and it would make my staion a bteer station
by your standards (more modes more abilities)

In that regard, it is "better". But it is not universally "better",
just as an automobile is not universally "better" than a bicycle.

I have never said it was

it is your side that varies from stating or impling that Manaul is always better which just isn't so

Where have *I* ever said Morse Code is always better?

in the post I am replying to you make a statement to that effect it
survies above as noted as "A"

"A tool that is with someone always is the most useful."? Has nothing
to do with what you are saying.

so where your beef?

The idea that machine operation is somehow universally better.

and my beef is your insitance that manual morse is always better

*Where* have *I* said that?

at A

"A tool that is with someone always is the most useful."

Doesn't fit.

it is not your cup of tea sure fine

Consider a bicycle. If another wheel is added, the rider doesn't need
to worry about falling over, so the skill required to ride it is
greatly reduced.
Add a small gasoline engine and a suitable transmission, and
pedaling becomes much easier. A simple cover will protect the rider
from rain
and other inclement weather.

Eventually you wind up with a small, three-wheeled automobile that
could win
the Tour de France. Except it's not a bicycle anymore, and its rider
a cyclist by any stretch of the imagination.

Or consider the piano. Pianos and similar keyboard instruments have
been around
for hundreds of years. It takes considerable skill and practice to play
them, and
reading sheet music is a skill of its own.

With modern computers and software, however, one can simply have a
machine that
scans in the sheet music and turns it into a "performance" - without
all those
lessons, practice, etc.

all depends on what you want, to listen or to play

Point is, there's a big difference.

which by analogy is up to me. Id rather listen than play that tune

and what about Manual Morse justifies making ME play that tune?

The same things about all the other things hams are required to learn.

no becuase I blow everything On AM or on SSB or FM and still get a

Maybe not. Nobody knows exactly which questions are on the written

so what you take it again and get another set of questions, no rule say
you have to pass on the first try

never said anyone was entitled to a sure thing, just a fair shot

Code testing is deferent nothing else in Ham radio has that
status so your staement is simply not true

The point is that you still have to learn stuff you'll probably never
use just to pass the written test.

and I unlike you oppose testing that type


Suppose you were given the following test:

You're sitting at a table with pencil and paper, and your choice of
speaker or headphones.

Through the headphones you hear a series of words spoken slowly and
clearly, spaced so there is one word every 2 seconds or so.

All you have to do is write down the first letter of each word.

The test always uses a standard phonetic alphabet, too.

So if you heard:

"Sierra....Tango.....Alpha.....Romeo.....Tango.... .....Whiskey.....India.....Tango.....Hotel"

you would write down



The test goes on for 5 minutes, but all you need is one minute correct
to pass the test.

Could you pass such a test? Is there anyone who can converse in
English, and who is literate in that language, who could not
pass such a test?

I might well not be able to, that is the meaning of Dyslexiod Aphasia,
I would hear the S in might write Y it all but certain I would suffer
from one of these occurances if a minute was 27 letters, any time I am
changing media there is high chance for making such errors, there is a
decent chance if I am just coping writen text, indeed to take your test
seeing the writen word one at a time and trying to copy them first
leters I can make such errors I fequenly do in the newsgroup find
myself unable to copy corectly a word on the screen

We see that all the time here.

indeed you do

Does not mean I can't read text and understand it and tell you about

Often what you write here is very unclear or even incomprehensible.

now you are being insulting

it is uncalled for

All the Morse Code test does is to replace the words with specific
sounds. Instead of "Sierra", for example, you would hear three short

What is so impossible about that?

get it though your head, I have failed exactly that test a number of
times Jim

Which one - the verbal one?

the morse test
nad for that matter if I am copiing enough letters the verbal (wether
in the span of any given minute I realy don't know)

I could see that if someone had an auditory or cognition problem,
they might have trouble with both tests. But it seems incredible
that people who would have no trouble with the first claim the
second to be impossible, or even very difficult, for them.

In My

Why did you capitalize "My"?

I don't know I just did

now if you'd like to at least pretend you were discusing this issue
rather than brating me about it, drop it

case it is a set of learning disablities, varies people have
varies abilities
when you add morseyou have tranlating . to "e" which might make it to
the page as "y" when you sart with letters .- which I think is "a" I
may hear -. think "a" (becuase dyslexics reverse stuff) and might not
get even that "a" to the paper right

I do better with keyboards where I am tring to learn not the . is "e"
but is the trhid finger of left hand up one key (the touch tpye
position of "e" of course)

Would you accept the same argument about the written tests? Some people
just can't seem to pass those.

no becuase it isn't true of anyone that can operate the radio
afterward, you find me a REAL person that can't pass the test in some
form, as I undersatnd they be read and ansered aloud I look at it and

the key word of course is "seem"

as I sate else (another thread I believe I would change the writtens
quite a bit, Idealy I suppose I should be pushing for it NOW along with
code, but being human I fight first what can be fought and affects most

Of course for some folks, "can't" actually means "won't" or
"don't want to".