From: "Dan/W4NTI" on Mon, Aug 15 2005 4:53 pm

Lennie,

Scroll down dipweed.

Now, now, you are NOT Playing Well With Others, lil Dannie. :-)


wrote in message
Mike Coslo" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:
"an old friend" wrote in message
Dan/W4NTI wrote:

That is my point Mike. Just because it is old....does not make it useless.
I believe in the KISS method. And CW, in emergencies, is the easiest and
simplest thing to get running.

No modems, no regulated power supplies, no computers. Just the basic stuff.

I was asked once by my Battalion commander while in the field in Germany.
( I was talking to the Feldburg 2m ham repeater while standing on top of the
Command track). He asked how I could communicate with Frankfurt, and all of
his radios could not......I said...."Well Sir, it takes two things to
communicate.....an operator on both ends"

He ordered me to take my H/T every time we went to the field from then on.

Tsk, tsk, highly UNlikely story for the 1972 times.

Unlikely you say? How is that ?

Playing with ham radios while on field maneauvers of a U.S. Army
armor unit? For "Army business?" HIGHLY UNLIKELY!!!

Because YOU didn't see it. Because YOU
have NO KNOWLEDGE ABOUT AMATEUR RADIO other than what you conjure up in your
distorted mind?

Take a trank, Dannie Disabled, settle down.

I realize that YOU think ham radio is super-secret stuff which
can't be revealed to the outside world, but that is NOT so.
But, you are totally confusing ARMY communications with your
ham hobby activies and that is NOT good for the U.S. Army.

You'll have to be more clear on that location. "Feldburg" could
be 'Feldberg' or even 'Frieberg' or 'Freiberg.' Was that in
Bavaria or elsewhere?

The Feldburg Amateur Radio Repeater, located in the Frankfurt area. Our
normal field site was towards the Fulda Gap area.

To your credit you got a bit closer geographically. Just try to
remember that not ALL who read in here have traveled in Germany.

The "berg" in a German location name is generally referring to a
a mountain (or large hill) while the "burg" in a German location
name denotes a town or city (e.g., "Hamburg").


In 1980s, Feldberg-Schwarzwald was a
troposcatter station from the north-central part of West
Germany with relay to Italy; before that it was part of the LOS
microwave multi-channel relay system.

This is the place, I remember the microwave site up there in the 70s.
Great place to play with my two meter Handi.

With absolute freedom of hobby enjoyment from your battalion's
signal officer, no doubt...no interference checking or even
M.I. checking to see if you were communicating something you
shouldn't have to the "other side?"

I could care less about the 1980s in Germany. You know full well I was
discussing the 70s time frame.

Tsk, I wasn't shifting time (Miccolis does that). There has been
considerable Signal activity in Germany ever since the Occupation
and I've seen several eras' plans of USAEUR communications from
1945 on through Ace High to the reunification of Germany.

Frankfurt was, may still be, USAEUR-Germany Hq and would be
roughly 150 miles north of Feldberg-Schwarzwald (I don't have a
good map of the FRG at the moment). Bavaria borders Austria
and Switzerland as well as part of East Germany; in 1972 the
German unification was still distant in time. It is HIGHLY
DOUBTFUL that there would be: 1. Ham HTs good enough or
inexpensive enough for a GI to get (even with NCO and overseas
pay) in 1972;

A Handi Talky made by Standard Communications was available, its
nomenclature was SRC-146A.

That must have been its CIVILIAN model designation. The "SCR"
nomenclature ceased about 1945 along with the "BC" specific
item nomenclature. No doubt you will say "the Army bought it
for you?" :-)

The German repeaters ALL operated with a "whistle up" tone access. Just
whistle it up and start to talk. Of course a Amateur Radio license was
required. And a German call. Mine was DA2LJ.

Did you communicate Army information over a German CIVILIAN
amateur radio repeater? [M.I. wants to know...]


on a "command track" (field Hq vehicle) that close to
unfriendly territory.

Not a problem at all. I showed my CO the German License, my US License,
and my MARS license. And after he seen it in action, he told me to KEEP
bringing it.

Right...and your "CO" never checked up on that, ever? ASA
didn't check up on you? [ASA was still in existance in 1972]

Being close to "unfriendly territory" was not a problem at all. You NOT
BEING a ham of course, would not comprehend these things.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. I was NEVER in Bavaria in the 1970s. But, I was
IN the U.S. Army in the 1950s and as a civilian engineer working
for civilian contractors engaged in Department of Defense contract
work from the late 1950s on through to 1989. Dannie Disabled,
I've had a bit MORE investigation by the U.S. government on
SECURITY matters (including background checks for Top Secret
and "Q") for the simple reason that I've been around longer than
you have. Don't try this Tuff Guy bull**** with me.

"Command tracks" (field Hq-Commo vehicles), presumably the
kind with all tracks and not wheels, but the name applies

I forget the nomenclature of the "Command Track" but it was basically a
double decker M-113 carrier.

It was big enough for lots of radios and several troops.

Being the ranking NCO I was also the track commander. Giving me the
"pleasure" to ride with my helmeted and usually masked head out of the hatch
to guide the driver.

Wow, real Tuff Guy stuff. I'll bet you tell some dandy "field
action stories" down at the Legion hall.


There it is guys, Lennie showing not his ignorance, but his stupidity. He
sits there in front of his keys and decides everything based on incorrect
assessments. What a world class dumbass.

Score another "doesn't play well with others" on Dannie Disabled's
record jacket.

Do you remember the Vietnam War Lennie? The US Army in Europe was at the
bottom of the list on new goodies. You can figure that out, right? Now
let me address your ignorance further;

I remember ALL the wars the United States had since 1941. I was
alive all that time. After 1960 my military service obligation
was over when I received my Honorable Discharge from the United
States Army. Good and bad...my employer could now send me on
field engineer assignments, unworried that I would be suddenly
mobilized.

USAEUR was assigned blocks of frequencies by the German government. Some
not in the best spots. A local commo officer then determined which ones to
use at what time and on what day/night. Normally these comm officers had no
knowledge of things like "skip", NVIS, or groundwave. Not to mention
broadcast QRM (Short Wave). So it was a shot in the dark if any frequency
chosen would actually work for the distance, time, day/night that it was to
be used.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. You should have reported all that to your Armor unit
CO and had that investigated!!! [but, with your ham licenses, you
"knew more" than any damn commissioned ossifers did, dint ya?]

For some reason the comsec officers liked to put us in the 2 Mhz range at
night, and the 7 as an alternate. 2 would work, but for the way to short
whips. And no we never bother to deploy the GRA-50s.....you DO know what
they are don't you?

I can look them up. :-) NOT being IN the Army in the '70s, I
didn't know one HAD TO KNOW EVERYTHING and keep it in mind
forever! :-)

The 7mhz was eat up with broadcast QRM, so forget it. And the 2 never got
out of the woods.

You claim that "all you had" was leftovers for equipment in the
1970s. Tsk, tsk, "leftovers" from the 1960s...BEFORE the
U.S. FULL involvement in Vietnam were THERE, even in the USAEUR
[military speak for U.S. Army, EURope, for you civilian readers].
You did "NOT" have the "three-band system" on high-HF, low-VHF
for overlapping commo bandspace for Armor, Artillery, Infantry?
I'm surprised. That went into effect in the mid-1950s and hung
around for over a decade, especially in vehicular comms of
all units.

The reality of it was this; Using 100 watts output on RTTY (RATT in Army
Speak) into a 15' metal whip and sitting in the GAP you were damn lucky to
make commo with your units, especially at night. Sometimes you got lucky.
Not like today I am sure.

"Today" is NOT 33 years ago, Dannie Disabled.

The most reliable commo was usually on the 40 mhz range FM VRC-12 units.
Range was extended by deploying "radio relay teams" to hilltops to act as a
manual repeater.

Dannie boy, VHF FM was the STANDARD communications radio type
during WW2 in Yurp for vehicles of all kinds and learned well by
the Army so as to continue using it.

RATT Short Wave Commo was spotty to say the least.

In YOUR unit, apparently. :-)

Was YOUR unit so 'special that you "needed" comms direct with
SHAEF Hq? :-)

"Short Wave Commo" was a STANDARD operation 24/7 for the Army
(and all other branches) Defense Communications System. The
Army part was called "Starcom" before that, and "ACAN" before
that. Yes, and I'm familiar with other branches, even the
USAF "Aircomnet" and other alphabet soup. The TTY message
relay center designators didn't change not even into the 70s,
not the ones at Primasens (RUFP), Kaiserslautern (RUFN),
Seckenheim (RUFW), Vainingen (RUFO), Bonn (RUFK), or at
Frankfurt (RUFY). The DCS went all around the world,
established so during WW2 and continuing on until the 80s.

Pirmasens (RUFP) would monthly go through Asmara, Eirtrea
(RUQP) to Manila (RUMP) (hi, hi) and then to Tokyo (RUAP).
I thought it most interesting to see the TTY test traffic
when that was done...had a hometown friend at RUFN but we
could NOT use the circuits for personal communications.
Must have been lots different in the Army that followed my
time, what with shack-onna-belt in a shack-onna-track for
fun and games in the field.

Believe it or not...I was there...you were NOT.

Ooooooo! More Tuff Tawk! Tsk, Dannie, I was IN ACAN...but at
a big communications station, not sitting in some tracked
vehicle playing sojer in da woods. I was NOT IN Bavaria
but love their cream pies, am indifferent to cuckcoo clocks
but find lots of cuckoos in here. :-)

Did you think Tokyo, Japan, was some kind of rear-area FAR
from any live-fire conflict? Jimmie Noserve thinks so.
Stebie da wundermurine thinks so. Tsk, tsk, I was IN
big-time HF communications that was running 24/7 comms on
Army business, not playing with any shack-onna-belt HTs in
any shack-onna-track. HF, Dannie Disabled, we only used VHF
and UHF and microwaves for radio relay.

Sorry, but use of REPEATER techniques, particularly UN-
manned repeaters, was pioneered by the U.S. Army in Italy
in late 1943, then used in France and Germany 1944-1945,
starting with the SCR-300, the VHF FM Voice manpack called
the "Walkie-Talkie." There's a specific repeater
connector on the front panel of every BC-1000 ever made
just for that purpose...designed-in by Signal Corps
request when the contract was signed with Motorola. With
REPEATERS, those can very easily operate WOTHOUT operators
"operating" things (taking any active part in the repeating
process of the radios). Repeaters are DESIGNED to operate
unattended.

None of which was available to any of the ARMY units I was with in Germany.

As if. :-) Tsk, tsk, tsk...the "three-band Armor-Artillery-
Infantry" radios were being issued in 1954 through 1958. The
grunt versions were the AN/PRC-8, -9, -10s and there were VRCs
and GRCs that fit the same bands. The little PRC-6 was ready
and used during the active Korean War ('50 to '53) but...
SOMEHOW...it "NEVER" got to the USAEUR by 1970?!? Incredible.
You should have notified your congresscritter immediately!
DEMAND and INVESTIGATION!!!

All the "PRCs" I mentioned had peripheral kits designed just FOR
unattended REPEATER operation! Amazing but true! Was in their
TMs and everything. For most of the "VRCs" and "GRCs" the same.
Just put them in place and leave 'em until the batteries run
down or the generator fuel runs out or "man" them as local
commanders say.

And what you said has NOTHING to do with what I said. AMATEUR RADIO
REPEATER OF FELDBURG. At least TRY to stay on topic Loser.

Riiiiight, tuff guy, AMATEUR RADIO used to direct Army Armor
units in the field? Suuuuure. :-)

They were as follows; 23rd Engineer Battalion, Hanau FRG (Federal Republic
of Germany)

1st Squadron, 11th Armored Cavalery Regiment, Fulda, FRG.

143rd Signal Battalion, Frankfurt, FRG.

FRG you, Dannie. Do we all have to LOOK THOSE UNITS UP in
something, Dannie? If we have to do that, why not give us a
hint of the U.S. Army DIRECTIVES that explain the use of
AMATEUR Radio Repeater procedures for Armor-Artillery-Infantry
units in the field of the 1970s?

1972 was THIRTY THREE years ago. By all appearances you've
done considerable "editing" of the ACTUAL FACTS surrounding
your field commo adventure. MANUFACTURING the story is more
likely.

And it is obvious to anyone that bothers to check what I say that you are
the liar and not I.

Look in any calendar or gazeteer of astro-navigation data,
1972 WAS THIRTY THREE YEARS AGO!!! No "lie," Danny Disabled. :-)

Let's see...1972 to 1973 is one year...1972 to 1974 is two years,
1972 to 1975 is three years, 1972 to 1976 is four years, 1972 to
1977 is five years, switch hands, 1972 to 1978 is six years,
1972 to 1979 is seven years, 1972 to 1980 is eight years, 1972
to 1981 is nine years, 1972 to 1982 is ten years. Well, you get
the picture, right? I didn't want to embarrass you by making
you count on your toes for a "twenty." You would have to borrow
someone else's hands and feet for the 13 more...

toe now