John Smith wrote:
K0HB:

Yes, I have read a couple of books on the subject--most of the authors
strike me as being rather weak in math and especially in the area of
probability and statistics--quite possibly lotus-blossom-eaters.


It certainly is a lot easier to say "God makes it so, so it is"

First, just for starters, to get all the necessary elements formed into
the complex amino acids to create the RNA is preposterous--let alone the
actual creation of the RNA (and this would only be a virus--unable to
replicate on its own.)

Why no, it really isn't preposterous.

What are the titles of your books?



Next, to get a complex DNA structure would be
another extraordinary event, for the proper structure (organism) to be
present and form around the DNA AND be able to use the DNA would be
another extraordinary event, for this organism to be able to replicate
would be one more extraordinary event, for just one of these single celled
organisms to go "multi-cellular" would be one more extraordinary event,
then for each cell to develop specialized functions--another extraordinary
event, for them to form complete organs handling a specific
function--another extraordinary event.... AND THIS IS SUPPOSED TO GO
RIGHT ON UP TO WHERE THE ORGANISM IS CAPABLE OF SELF-REALIZATION, COMPLEX
THOUGHT AND CONSIDERS ITSELF TO HAVE A SPIRIT!


You are off the scientific track to begin with, otherwise you wouldn't
use the string of "Preposterous, Extraordinary, impossible, endlessly
number, impossible links, Impossible- end of story" stuff.

Want to see a few things that are interesting?

Look up lipid structures, and see their likely early life implications.
No miracles here, just simple chemistry.

You speak of RNA and DNA. When speaking of origins of life, it is
probably better to speak of metabolic pathways, as the DNA and RNA
probably evolved to accommodate them.

And are they complicated!

see http://tinyurl.com/dm8hu


This is a pdf file of the various metabolic pathways. While the major
ones are ATP and glycolysis, there are many.

Now whereas you may look at this chart, and say look how complicated!
this is proof that we are created by God!, I look at it and say "What
kind of God would create such a sloppy convoluted MESS!"

I can only speak for myself, but if I were to create life, I would
leave no doubt that it was created. There would be no processes, no
interconnected pathways, nothing of the sort.

My creatures would see because I made them see, would think because
they just do, and there would be no obvious source of life - cut one of
them open, and inside would be nothing.

A genuine miracle. Simple, and allowing of no argument.


... as you can quickly see, this chain of impossible, seemingly endlessly
numbered and impossible links of extraordinary events to have all
occurred, all at just the right time, all in just the proper order is just
too mathematically impossible to have any believe but those willing to
believe the most preposterous impossibility which could ever be devised...
in plain english--IT IS IMPOSSIBLE--END OF STORY!

You try to make it much more complicated sounding than it is.

Those books on the subject, start quickly to, toss around these CHAINS of
extraordinary events without the slightest considerations to the
mathematical possibilities, which end up being NON-EXISTENT!

What were those books again?


I had the fortune to have a mathematics professor who I worked with at the
university, who obtained a grant and was into computing these
possibilities, he WAS an atheist... and that is a true story!

In fact, it was this professor who first told me to look either for angels
or aliens--before he finally settled on the angels (intelligence NOT from
a mud puddle as you could ever find upon an earth-like planet)...

I just flat do not know what to think, it is all too impossible...
perhaps the answers are out there...
X-Files-theme-plays-in-the-background

... or, perhaps there is a very simple explanation we just have not
thought of--yet... any guess is as valid as another...

Well, the simplest answer is "All this comes from God". Simple, to the
point, and the great thing is that once you accept this, you need look
no further. You are her to worship him, and that is all the knowledge
needed.

If you want more, if the one liner answer is not enough, I would
suggest that you add time to your equations of impossibility.

As for your math professor, I wonder if he had the concept of time on
the billion year scale? Almost no one does.

How is it that the human has eyes? An exquisite organ of sense to be
sure. But before we throw up our hands and say that it was too
complicated a structure to have simply come about by chance, we might
want to take a look at the facts.

Phototropism exists at the lowest levels of life. There are bacteria in
the ocean that adjust the level at which they "swim" by the amount of
ambient light falling on them. It is a pretty simple thing. Various
creatures make use of this in varying degrees of complexity, from simple
organs that react to light coming from different directions, to simple
lensed eyes, to multi lensed wonders that detect movement, to reflective
layers behind the sensing structure that allow sight at the individual
photon level. As well as our eyes, which although wonderful, are not at
the top of the list for acuity.

But at it's root level, it *is* a simple thing. That's phototropism. A
chemical reaction that would exist if there were no life to put it in.

That is just one case. The other senses are also similarly simply
based. All based on detection of energy sources, and using those sources
to extract information from the environment.

Just like looking at a modern automobile. While they look very
complicated, at heart, they are just a compilation of simple machines.

This is in no way to say that life is not a wonderful and amazing
thing. It is. It is a messy, complicated, unruly, terribly imperfect yet
surprisingly resilient gastraphagus we have here.

And yet, some people look at it, and some throw their arms in the air
and say that "It is so complex! It could only have been created by
God!". While I look at it and say "It is so complex! I doubt any God
would create such a mess when under his total control, a simple life
form could be created".

It is worth study with an open mind. When you work on the billion year
time scale, all sorts of possibilities exist.

- Mike KB3EIA -