RadioBanter - View Single Post - Scorecard on WT Docket 05-235

October 25th 05, 10:30 AM

wrote:
From: on Oct 24, 3:39 am
Alun L. Palmer wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote in
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 16:41:58 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:
On Sat, 22 Oct 2005 14:23:24 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:
wrote:

no effort to squech it has been made.

Tsk, tsk...LOTS of "squelching" has been ATTEMPTED. :-)

By you and Mark..

Case in point: All these allegations of "honesty" and FALSE
charges of an inordinate number of "mistakes."

By whom?

Nice MISDIRECTION away from the NPRM. :-)

The thread is about your "scorecard", Len. Asking how the
numbers are derived, what rules are used in the derivation,
and who checks your work are right on-subject.

For example, if someone filed 1 comment and 3 reply comments
on the NPRM, did you count them as 1 or 4 or something else?

he has the right to ignore me if
he likes, as do you of course, and I have
the right to tell to shut
up and stoping acting like High Inqusitor
or impling that Len is doing
something imporper in reading and counting as he sees fit

Mark, simply Being Here and Being NOT for morse code
is "improper" and "incorrect!" :-)

How many hunderd question does Jim need to
ask before he reconizes
that Len is not required to answer him

Doesn't matter. Jimmie Noserve is a Radio god

"Radio god"?

Looks like an extreme exaggeration. How do we know you
don't exaggerate other things?

in here and can
act/do/write whatever he wants to and that WILL be "correct"
(because that is his opinion and anything against it
is "wrong").

Disagreement with him is "wrong," thus "validating" his false
charges of "mistakes." :-)

Good description of your behavior here, Len.

Your mistakes are well documented. Such as the legality of
amateur operation by hams with expired-but-in-the-grace-period
licenses.

On the contrary, I like Jim because he is rational
and polite.

Thanks, Alun!

Jim is always right.

Gosh, Len, so you *can* call me by my name!

He must be because he says so...those
against his opinions are "wrong." :-)

When it comes to one-sided opinions in favor of code testing,
he gets upset and irrational. shrug

He did raise a valid point about citizenship,
i.e. it is irrelevant, but I raised this point
myself with Len
before and didn't get an answer.

I thought I answered that. :-)

I'll have to get busy and find out every other government
administrations' Elections so that I can go vote on those
issues...if I don't need to be a citizen there. :-)

Last I saw, United States citizens voted on, expressed
opinions on United States laws, regulations, rules.
As far as
I've seen so far, Title 47 C.F.R. applies ONLY to United
States
citizens on United States soil.

US citizenship is not a requirement for getting an FCC
amateur radio license. Passing the required tests *is* a
requirement.

A comment to FCC is not a vote. Citizenship is not required
to comment. Neither is there an age requirement to comment.

Of course Len has admitted that he has had problems integrating young
people into what he considers 'adult' activities....

FCC doesn't exclude noncitizens, so why should a count of the
comments exclude them? A noncitizen can get an FCC license, but
has to take the same tests as a citizen, so why shouldn't their
comments be counted?

By INTERNATIONAL AGREEMENT, the United States allows non-
citizens to be granted United States radio operator licenses.

That's right.

Do NON-citizens vote on United States laws, regulations,
rules?

A comment is not a vote. An NPRM is not an election. FCC doesn't have
to act on what the majority of comments want.

Doing a voluntary examination of an on-going WT Docket and
reporting what I found is hardly "telling the FCC or anyone
in here" "what to do."

Who said it was?

The issue is the accuracy of your 'scorecard'.

Tsk, tsk. Since this is a private

It's not private at all. You blab it all over a public forum,
so it's fair game for comment and question by others.

That's what free speech in a public forum is all about, Len.
If you make statements here, others have the right to comment
on them and question their validity.

Is your 'scorecard' a collection of alleged facts, or is it
just your opinion?

all-voluntary "score card," the one doing the READING of ALL
filings is allowed to set the conditions. :-)

Of course.

Those
conditions have been FULLY EXPLAINED in each "score card"
I've posted...since the end of July, 2005.

No, they haven't. For example:

If someone posts multiple comments that are not identical,
are they counted as one comment or more than one?

If a group or club posts a comment with multiple signatures,
does that count as one comment or more than one?

How is it decided what constitutes a "valid address"?

Why is there some kind
of "dispute" NOW rather than in the past two months?

Is there a time limit on questions?

As far as the "Indeterminate" column of my scoring, the notes
explain what was done.

Not completely.

At issue in WT Docket 05-235 is just
whether or not NPRM 05-143 should be made into an R&O or not.
NPRM 05-143 is NOT some comprehensive all-inclusive Remake
of Part 97 as in the "Restructuring" of '98-'99. It is just
about morse code testing, whether it should stay or go...in
USA amateur radio regulations.

The NPRM does not state that comments must be about Morse Code testing
and nothing else.

Back in 1999 you posted reply comments recommending an age requirement
for all classes of amateur license, even though
that NPRM never mentioned anything about an age requirement.

Should your reply comments be called "indeterminate" because
of that?

Other than the non-specific "Indeterminate" opinions, there
are only three others: FOR the NPRM, AGAINST the removal of
code testing, and retention of code testing ONLY for the
Amateur Extra class. Perhaps that is just too difficult to
grasp?

Perhaps your explanation is incomplete?

What IS difficult to grasp - by the PCTA - is that the NCTA
are no longer a minority.

That has not been shown to be true.

In fact, many PCTA just cannot
believe that radio hobbyists cannot love, honor, and obey
the cherished Belief that morse code testing is "necessary."

Len has a proven track record of mistakes here, particularly in
the area of FCC regulations, so it's not unreasonable to ask
about how his numbers are compiled and how they are checked.

"Proven track record?!?" :-)

Yes. You've made serious mistakes in your statements about
Part 97. And you've refused to correct or even acknowledge them.

Is that what is called "politeness" and "civility?" In here
I guess so... :-)

It's called stating a fact.

The way to "check" my numbers is to GO AND READ ALL THE
COMMENTS-FILINGS ON WT DOCKET 05-235 AND DO YOUR OWN
TALLIES OF OPINIONS.

You're not the only one reading the comments, Len. And your
numbers don't agree with others' results.

Jimmie has NOT even made ONE filing on WT Docket 05-235.

If someone makes multiple filings on that docket, and they
are not identical, will you count them as one comment or more than
one?

Do "filings" include only comments, or are reply comments and
other materials included in the count?

Is your 'scorecard' only a count of comments, or are reply
comments included too?

Jimmie has NOT stated he has READ a single filing on 05-235.

Who is "Jimmie", Len? Can't be me, because I've read several of
the comments. Reply comments too. And the whole NPRM.

Jimmie has spent a LOT of time and effort trying his best
to obscure and misdirect the NPRM "scorecard" results by
all these "challenges" and FALSE statements about my previous
alleged "inaccuracies."

I've simply asked questions and stated facts. It's a fact that
you have a proven track record of mistakes here. Here's another:
you once stated you had *never* used a certain screen name to post
here, and then it was shown that you had. I think you called
yourself 'Averyfine'...

Hey, it's a neat trick to try and sway public opinion in this
computer-modem kind of communications. Done well enough,
constant repetition of FALSE charges will make some folks
believe that a person is "highly inaccurate." :-)

Is that your methodology here, Len? Perhaps you're counting on nobody
checking your work.

The NPRM proposes to eliminate *all* Morse Code
testing for an amateur license. Someone who supports
the NPRM must, by definition, support the removal
of *all* code testing, not just some of it. Otherwise
they are opposed to the NPRM.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. Nothing in ANY NPRM is so sacrosanct as
to demand absolute obediance to the NOTICE of PROPOSED
RULE MAKING.

There's no A in "obedience", Len. Are you getting worked up over this?

Had Jimmie seen other NPRMs and the
resulting R&Os, he would understand that. Obviously,
he has NOT.

I don't know what "Jimmie" has read, but I've read plenty of
NPRMs and the resultinf R&Os.

The detail of whether they support the current level
of Morse Code testing, or whether they support a
reduction but not complete elimination, does not
change the fact that they are opposed to the NPRM as
it stands.

SPIN, SPIN, SPIN. :-)

Tsk, the purpose of a COMMENT period is to allow
CITIZENS to make their desires known to their
government on a PROPOSED ruling.

Not just CITZENS, Len - all interested parties. FCC has
not rejected the comments of noncitizens - why chould you?

In fact, one doesn't even have to be a human being to
comment. FCC accepts comments from corporate organizations
as well. They cited the comments of Kenwood back in the R&O
about the 2000 restructuring.

If Kenwood files comments, will you count them or reject them?

Those desires ARE
now PUBLIC. 2,641 filings' worth.

Do they include reply comments or just comments in your totals?

Miccolis has NOT
read ALL of them,

Are you sure?

hasn't even made his own filing.
I have read ALL of them...including the 19 more for
24 October 2005 (making 2,660 filings) which will be
posted on 25 October (plus any additional the FCC
wishes to add).

Does that mean no one can question your scorecard? Why?
Is it somehow sacred and not open to any questions or
comments?

Seems that way.

So...where is the "score card" by James Miccolis?

And...WHO will "check his work?" :-)

It's not about me, Len. It's about *your* 'scorecard'.

Who checks Miccolis' "work" on his bi-monthly "license
number" postings? [he won't say from where he cribs
his numbers]

Anyone can check my posted numbers very simply by doing the
math. I've stated the source of those numbers here.

If there's a math mistake I'll correct it. But I don't recall
anyone pointing out such a mistake.

The FCC will have no problem deciding that they have a
mandate to abolish Element 1 based on the comments.

Perhaps - but recall that FCC is not required to follow
the majority opinion. They did not follow majority
opinion in 1999 either...

Tsk. Morse lovers are seeing the handwriting on the
wall. Finally. Wow, news flash, morse code testing
is NOT favored by a majority! [sunnuvagun!]

How do you know it's not favored by a majority?

The ARRL represents a distinct MINORITY of all USA
amateur radio licensees. A mere 20%.

How is that number derived?

Yet, on any
other issue, What The ARRL Says is some kind of "truth"
about amateur radio...anyone against that will get all
sorts of nastygram grief from ARRL Believers!!!

More important to the discussion of 'scorecards' is the
accuracy of the count. At present, Len's 'scorecard' is
made up of about 2500 comments that pass some vaguely
defined tests of validity.

"Vaguely defined tests of validity?!?"

Yes.

2,645 filings for the period 15 July 2005 to 22 October 2005.

Miccolis is IN ERROR...it was NOT "2500." Tsk, tsk.

I wrote "about 2500" - which was accurate when it was written.

With such ERRORS, Miccolis is establishing a "PROVEN TRACK
RECORD OF MISTAKES!!!" :-)

Really?

"Vaguely defined?"

Yes.

The Notes in my "score card" postings
explain it, well past "vague" judgements by PCTA Miccolis.

If someone posts multiple comments that are not identical,
are they counted as one comment or more than one?

If a group or club posts a comment with multiple signatures,
does that count as one comment or more than one?

How is it decided what constitutes a "valid address"?

Are reply comments included or just comments?

With a base of 2500 comments, a single comment
represents .04% of the
total, and 25 comments represent 1% of the total.
With the totals being
so close, it would not take a lot of mistakes to
change the apparent majority.

Tsk, tsk, tsk...PCTA Miccolis has NOT CHECKED THE WORK!

How could anyone check your work, Len? You haven't shown it.

Showing the apparent results to four significant figures may
give the illusion of accuracy to some, but in fact there's a
pretty big range of interpretation to those numbers.

Only in the "Indeterminates." Many of THOSE are so vaguely
comprehensible that it would take an extreme favoritsm to
one side or the other to put them in an "un-ambiguous"
category. READ THEM AND SEE.

"Illusion of accuracy?" :-) With over a thousand filings
judged into four categories, four-place accuracy was thought

Thought by whom?

needed to trends, changes, closeness-of-differing-opinions
and so forth. That is insufficient for the highly
judgemental
(and rather disturbed by revelations) James Miccolis. He
wants "the work checked" by another PCTA...possibly to show
the "true light of the efficacy and necessity of morse code
testing?"

Are you afraid of having your work checked, Len?

PCTA James Miccolis has NOT made any filing whatsoever as of
midnight, 22 October 2005.

So?

If I make 10 nonidentical comments, will they count as 1 comment or
more than 1?

He has NO indication of READING
ANY of the 2,641 filings (except the first one, maybe) on
WT Docket 05-235. Then he "challenges" me to "show the work"
as if he is some kind of "authority" on what should be posted
in here!

Does that mean no one can question your scorecard? Why?
Is it somehow sacred and not open to any questions or
comments?

Seems that way.

Magnificent performance! [of petulant spite]

By you....;-)

For example, if one person submits multiple comments that are omewhat
different from each other (but all from the same
person), are they all counted, or just one?

That has been EXPLAINED.

No, it hasn't.

Duplicates are put into the Indeterminate
category. There are TWO flagrant violators of that, one
for, one
against the NPRM. Can Miccolis NAME those two? I can.

How can we be sure you caught every single person that filed more than
one comment?

But, I've READ all 2,641 filings made up to midnight, 22
October 2005.

Really? That's nice.

If one person submits comments and reply comments
(but all from the
same person), are they all counted, or just one?

More necro-equine flagellation. :-)

Leads me to believe you're counting reply comments too.
And not checking for dupes.

If a club or organization comments, does that count
as one comment or
multiple comments?

Sigh...:-) So far, ONE club has filed (but not
given any list of
members).

Only one?
Editor Moseson of CQ has filed...does PCTA Miccolis
demand that ALL SUBSCRIBERS TO CQ be counted also? :-)

Only if ALL SUBSCRIBERS to QST are also counted...

If a single comment has multiple signatures, does it count as one
comment or does the number of signatures come into play?

Which filing by whom and on what date has "multiple
signatures?"

You tell me.

Does Miccolis get multiple ligatures squirming around, trying
to find a fresh spot on the dead horse?

So far, Miccolis has NOT CHECKED MY WORK,

Nobody can. You haven't shown it.

probably has NOT READ
ALL of the 2,641 filings to midnight, 22 October, 2005.

"probably"? Aren't you sure? Previously you were sure, now
you're not.

He has
NOT made his OWN filing by that date.

Is a comment a requirement? The deadline isn't till next week.

You can see that depending on how the above questions are
answered, and rules are applied, the results can be far
different.

What "rules" were "necessary" to be followed, Miccolis?

Were they "published" prior to 15 July 2005?

Did you "define what should be done" by the end of August,
2005?
[no, you did NOT]

Did you "define what should be done" by the end of September,
2005? [no, you did NOT]

Does that mean no one can question your scorecard? Why?
Is it somehow sacred and not open to any questions or
comments?

Tsk, Miccolis must have become suddenly aware that there is NO
majority favoring the retention of the morse code test in
the United States' regulations for civil radio, Title 47
C.F.R.,
Part 97! [sunnuvagun!]

I'm just asking some questions, Len.

Miccolis is seeing the "end of ham radio" (as HE knows it) when
things are progressing ever onwards towards elimination the morse
code test! Poor thing...he stays up late on Sunday night, even
into Monday morning to vent his Grief and Upset at that!

I'm just asking some questions, Len. You seem to be very
upset over them.

So we are all just waiting for the other shoe to drop.

Probably.

"Probably?" :-) It's UNAVOIDABLE. It WILL come about.

Crystal ball?

The only question is when.

The official end of Comments on WT Docket 05-235 is 31
October,
2005, a week from now. The official end of Replies to
Comments
is 14 November 2005.

On WT Docket 98-143 the official end of the last extension of
Comments was 15 January 1999. The final R&O
on "Restructuring"
wasn't released until the last week in December, 1999.
That is
roughly 10 months of decision-making...but on a LOT
more issues
than just morse code testing.

So?

James Miccolis wasn't IN the FCC in 1998, 1999, and he isn't
IN the FCC in 2005.

Neither are you, Len - ever.

However, he KNOWS things and anyone who
doesn't agree with this innate knowledge "makes mistakes!"

I'm just asking some questions, Len. You seem to be very
upset over them.

FCC may simply be responding to the fact that if they
don't drop Element 1, the petitions and proposals will
continue,
making more work for them, but no more resources.

Tsk, tsk, tsk. If the decisions don't go YOUR way, then you
can renounce the FCC as some sort of meaningless beaurocracy
that doesn't serve the "public need," right? You ARE U.S.
amateur radio, aren't you? [you sure sound like it]

I'm just asking some questions, Len. You seem to be very
upset over them.

The FCC will take its time, make its decisions, the issue an
R&O. They will do so WITHOUT having James Miccolis "check
their work!" However, any decision arrived at WILL be fully
explained in THEIR Report and Order and appropriate
Commentors
noted in references. So far, as of midnight, 22 October 2005
the FCC CANNOT cite any James Miccolis as a referencible
Commentor...he has NOT even submitted any Comments on 05-235
as of that date!

So?

Jimmie, you can make all the FALSE and
misdirected "questions"
you wish about me. All I do is READ ALL the Comments and
Replies to Comments on 05-235. The OPINIONS on what the FCC
should do in its final R&O come from United States citizens.

Not just citizens.

The FCC is bound by law and reputation to "serve the public
interest." They seem to do a good job of that, despite what
the losers on past decisions snarl about.

You're the one 'snarling'. Len.

I'm just asking some questions. You seem to be very
upset over them.

Okay, you can try more misdirection and multiple postings
and you are going to get the same replies from me.

IOW, nothing of any substance.

That
doesn't affect the final R&O one iota. You've had all
your amateur life to crow about the efficacy of morse code
as a "necessary" part of licensing...and now you are seeing
that all of that will soon be gone.

The test may be gone, but Morse Code use by hams will go on.
For a long time.

You won't be able to
crow much in the future...but you may have to EAT some...

I'm just asking some questions, Len. You seem to be very
upset over them.

Besides - what does all this matter to you? You're not going to
get a license anyway, test or no test.