From: on Nov 21, 4:44 pm

wrote:
wrote:
wrote:
From: on Wed 16 Nov 2005 19:09
wrote:
From: "Bill Sohl" on Wed 16 Nov 2005 08:35
wrote in message
an old friend wrote:
wrote:
Bill Sohl wrote:

snipped blah blah...


The "modern" Extra class license was added in the 1951 restructuring that
also added the Novice and Technician class licenses. The code test speed
for the Extra was set at 20 wpm at that time.

That's what Len said. But when you say it, it just takes longer.
Congratulations.

Jimmie no accept what I write. He good at long answers
which say the same thing, but then he say he wrote it best. :-)


Why? Because the older-timers influencing
the NAAR lobbyists thought they were hot snit for amateur
radio because so many had been professional telegraphers.

No, that's not true at all.

It does have that appearance. Why don't hams working for the FCC have
to put away their licenses as to not incur a conflict of interest?
That would like having a big oil president and vice president holding
oil stocks.

In 1951 there was no Internet, no easy way to "talk" to the
FCC except through legal outfits and lobbying organizations
all using the "proper" format in their paperwork. Everything
was surface mail if you couldn't afford special couriers.
The League could afford a legal firm then and they filed
nice legalese documents with the Commission. With a relative
scarcity of correspondence incoming they could pay attention
to the League then. The League enjoyed a high place on
amateur regulation correspondence with the FCC then. Any
individual writing longhand, without legal terms or in any
"approved" format got chuckled at. Things were more
"patrician" then.

Things are a bit different now. Internet access to ALL
government is faster than overnight express mail. FCC has
to accept ALL filings. By law. The correspondence on hot-
ticket Dockets is enormous compared to more than a half
century ago. ALL radio has increased in scope and the FCC
is stuck with having to regulate an enormous set of radio
services affecting millions and millions more than existed
in 1951.

In 1951, as in 1956, the ENTIRE set of regulations of the
FCC could be put in a medium-sized loose-leaf binder. The
nicely-printed sheets were already punched for that and one
could be on a subscription list from the USGPO to receive
update pages. Before 2001 the entire set of regulations
wound up taking FIVE volumes of softbound books and printed
new every two years. Those who had Federal Register
subscriptions could get "updates" also in 1951 but by 2001
those updates could be obtained from the Federal Register
online.

While your remark about conflict of interest has merit,
Brian, I would remind everyone that regulation of amateur
radio is a SMALL part of the total FCC regulatory
requirement. Part 13, Title 47 C.F.R., has the regulations
for Commercial Radio Operator licenses. I count 10 of
those from my 1995 bound edition of Title 47. FCC has
to regulate COLEMs as well as the VEC. It would be
difficult to have any "conflict of interest" at the FCC
on the basis of having only ONE out of 13 (or even 16)
different operator licenses.


It was a way of keeping the old pro status past retirement.
Since they were already skilled in telegraphy, they got a free
set of perquisites in a HOBBY activity.

What about the thousands of others - like myself - who earned the
license because we wanted the privileges? In my case, that was
in 1970, at the age of 16.

You mom and dad provided you with three hots and a cot. Unless you
were raised in an orphanage where the Christians or the County provided
the three hots and a cot.

Jimmie looks at himself as the "model" of what all others did,
namely getting his in his teen years. Apparently, indoctrination
during teen years is somehow spay-shul, more important than
doing so later in life.

Jimmie did not MAKE any of the test regulations he passed. But,
he passed them, so therefore all others must be like him? He
had not achieved many years of expertise in radio communications
then but now he will say he did. Jimmie just passed the tests
which were put in place by much older regulators, lobbied for by
much older radio amateurs than he.

Jimmie still doesn't regulate any radio service and still
endeavors to hold the status as much quo as when he first
achieved Extra at the ripe old age of 16 (35 years ago?).



Prove that the "old First Phone" examination was "less hard"
than the Amateur Extra exam. You never completed that last
test element on your alleged Commercial radio operator license
and could only get a SECOND class.

Kindly prove that the old Amateur Extra was less difficult than the old
First Phone.

Heil, quit being the snotty lil kid trying to turn tables. That
makes YOU look dumb. I took all the test elements for a First
'Phone 49 years ago. I've seen the test elements for an Extra
of that time.

Where?

In one of the harbor cities of Los Angeles. Available in various
forms but limited to photocopies and mimeographed re-typed form.
The "Xerox machine" hadn't got into production yet in 1957.
Passed around by hand, of course. :-)

Back then those test elements were only given by FCC examiners. They
were not legally available to folks like you (outside of FCC). In fact,
back then
FCC required 2 years' experience as a General or higher license just to
*try* the Extra test.

Dick Bash disagreed with you then and he disagrees with you now.

The "Q&A" (Question and Answer) books got their info by various
ways, including interviews with those who had passed the different
tests. If they somehow purloined the test information they
weren't prosecuted for it...

Anyone perusing the Copyright laws of the United States will find
out that DIRECT REPRODUCTION of any U.S. government work is not
quite punishable; the Copyright laws forbid the government from
copyrighting their own work! The legal ramifications of that
have to be worked out by legal people as to whether such things
are forbidden to reproduce OR to reveal.

As you say, the Dick Bash organization is still in business
after many years (I think those old Q&A books might still be
printed too), so the "Bash Books" weren't the high crime they
were reputed to be in urban legend. shrug


The Commercial license was still more difficult
than the amateur...NOT because I took any, but because the
Commercial license covered a LOT more EM territory, a LOT more
modes in Commercial radio then.

But you don't really know because you didn't take both. Some of those
who *did* take both say the Extra written was "harder".

[tsk, self-aggrandizement and done after-the-fact]

It's important that you should work harder for a hobby endeavor than
for a commercial endeavor.

Of course, since some say "it's the most important thing in
life!" :-)


"A Morse Code Exam would be a barrier to Morse Code use." N2EY

I agreed with you then and I agree with you now.

I too agree with that Miccolis statement, adding a "hear! hear!"



With a beep beep here, a beep beep there, everywhere a beep beep...