RadioBanter - View Single Post

November 27th 05, 11:55 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: on Nov 26, 8:02 pm
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Mon 21 Nov 2005 09:41
wrote:
From: Dave Heil on Nov 20, 9:25 am

Amateur radio might be operating weak signal UHF SSB with a multi-mode,
multi-band rig. It might be operating 2m FM through a local repeater.
It might be ragchewing on 40m CW. One constant is that you aren't involved.

I don't do any RF transmission in amateur bands, with the
exception of those bands which are shared with other radio
services.

That's a very good thing!

Why?

Because if you did "RF transmission in amateur bands" without the
proper
license, you could be breaking the law, Len. That would be a very bad
thing.

Are you morsemen so elitist you can't get along with others?

I get along with all sorts of people, Len. Including many who disagree
with
me. You're the one that has the problem getting along with others if
they
don't agree with everything you say.

Yet I am able to communicate worldwide without
an amateur radio license or using morse code!

But not by direct radio contact.

Most absolutely INCORRECT, Jim-Jim.

DIRECT from a maritime transceiver as a civilian.

Worldwide? I don't think so.

DIRECT from a government radio transmitter.

Are you authorized to do so?

DIRECT as in laying on of hands,
moving controls, operating, all that stuff.

Neither of those are *your* equipment, licensed to *you*, are they?

And 24/7
without worrying about the ionospheric conditions! :-)

Telephone and internet. We can all do that, Len.

Then why do you fuss with morse and standards that are over
70 years old?

The standards are a lot newer than "70 years old", Len.

As to why anyone would fuss with Morse Code in 2005, the
reasons are the same as why anyone would fuss with:

- cars that have manual transmissions instead of automatics
- sailboats instead of power boats
- Drawing and painting instead of photography
- Performing music instead of playing recordings
- Bicycles, running and walking for transport instead of motor vehicles
- Stairs instead of elevators
- Homemade food instead of packaged

And many more.

Why do you live in the past?

Tsk, I don't.

You sure talk about it a lot, though.

You were born before 1951?

No. Were you born before 1932? You sure talk about it a lot.

YOU talked much of it in previous post.

Because I know something of those times and the creation of the
Extra class license.

YOU have talked much about Reggie Fessenden and his carbon-mike-in-
the-antenna "AM voice transmission" of 1906 and (allegedly) 1900.

That's right. Was any of my information incorrect?

Are you 105 years old?!?

No - are you? Because you sure take issue about Fessenden's
accomplishments
even though they are before you were born.

Jimmy Noserve loves the past, always
bringing up little factoids of amateur radio history
that happened before his time.

Gee, Len, you're always bringing up little factoids of
history that happened before *your* time.

When did MY "time" begin, Jimmy? My "first radio job" in HF comms
began in 1953.

Yet you talk about 1951 and amateur radio, even though you had nothing
to do with amateur radio then.

I was there then, did it, came back. Never used
any morse code then on three dozen transmitters, never had to.

Because you were a transmitter technician, not a radio operator.

It's odd that you take pride in what you did *not* do...

Are you the only one allowed to do that?

Tsk, you are getting disturbed.

Not me.

It sure does seem that you talk about things that happened long
before you were born, but get mad when others talk about things
that happened long before *they* were born. As if it's OK for
you to do but not others.

Calm down, just keep on bringing
up all those tidbits of "radio history" as you need to. Be mindful
of some critics, though. Not all of those are me. :-)

Like who?

"Radio" is a subset of electrical engineering.

Incorrect. It is a part of electronics, a technology discipline.

Nope. It's a separate subset. Electronics does not include things
like antennas. Radio does.

"Electronics" is a subset of electrical engineering.

INCORRECT.

What parts of electronics are not covered by electrical engineering,
Len?

Electronics is one TECHNOLOGY DISCIPLINE of physics.

No, it isn't.

Physics is a science. Electrical engineering is a form of engineering,
and electronics is a subset of that.

Do try to keep up, Len. Your mistakes (like the ones Hans pointed out
about DD-214s) are embarrassing.

Didn't Dexter teach you the correct way to look at
physics...like everyone else does?

Who is "Dexter", Len?

Radio and electronics have some things in common, but they are not
identical, and one is not a subset of the other.

Amateur radio definitions seldom jibe with the rest of the
world of electronics...and radio. :-)

Yours don't jive with anything - like your spelling. Shall we call you
"Vshah101"?

Do you consider U.S. amateur radio to be a HOBBY?

And much more.

And, of course, YOU do so much more... :-)

Yes, I do. You don't.

NPRM 05-143 is singularly about the telegraphy test. [that's
what this "english teacher" of the thread title was commenting
on] That NPRM has NOTHING to do with radiotelephony, radiodata,
teletypewriter over radio, slow or fast-scan television,
facsimile over radio. The amateur radio license tests have
NO test elements for physically OPERATING any radio, are not
required to have radio equipment AT a license exam site.

So? Why is that significant?

Why do you consider yourself so "significant?" :-)

It's not about me, Len.

The sole manual test for anything at any amateur license exam
is about telegraphy, telegraphy as used on amateur radio (there
is NO landline telegraphy tested), more technically,
radiotelegraphy. As it is NOW, that is.

And that's a good thing.

It is a "good thing" only to those that took that test and
passed it, thus fulfilling the "proper jump through hoops"
of "tradition." :-)

Incorrect. There were comments to the FCC by people who had
not passed the Morse Code test which said it was a good thing
and should be retained. The English Teacher is one of them,
but not the only one.

If you actually read all of the comments, you'd know that.

When you make a sweeping general statement, and someone
proves an exception, the statement is shown to be false. That's
basic logic.

So your sweeping general statement:

"It is a "good thing" only to those that took that test and passed it"

has been proven to be untrue and invalid.

The written test elements are prepared, both questions and
multiple-choice question answers, by the VEC QPC.

And approved by the FCC

Who else? :-)

YOU are NOT in the FCC.

Neither are you, Len.

Am I saying that many radio amateurs don't know squat about
radio theory? ABSOLUTELY.

Your opinion only. And as you have demonstrated, you are not
exactly unbiased in your opinions.

Yes, MY OPINION! :-) Do you think someone else is writing
all this? :-)

Your bloviating is so voluminuous that there could be more than one
of you....;-)

Many radio amateurs know much more about radio theory than
you, Len.

I charge that based on MY life
experience in answering, as politely as possible, questions
of rather elementary level on radio theory.

Your politeness isn't exactly legendary, Len.

Tsk, your definition of "polite" seems to be everyone agreeing
with you and giving your gratuitous praise for whatever you do.

Nope. That's *your* definition.

How did they pass their written tests if they're so ignorant? Did
they get a look at a 1957 Extra test?

Why is that important here...other than satisfying your nasty
little nyah-nyahs?

Yet FCC disagrees with you, Len.

No, sweetums, YOU disagree with me. YOU are NOT the FCC.

FCC hasn't revoked their licenses. Nor has FCC required widespread
retesting of amateurs. FCC considers those folks you disdain to be
qualified to operate amateur radio stations. FCC does not consider
*you* to be qualified to operate an amateur radio station, though.

Operating is what amateur radio is really all about. All types of
operating, with all sorts of modes and equipment.

INCORRECT.

No, correct. The license is for operating, not for building.

Modes and frequencies are specifically allocated
and given in Part 97, Title 47 C.F.R. NOT "all types" as you
state. [tsk, tsk] NOT "all sorts of modes" since those are
limited. NOT "all sorts of equipment" either since there are
exceptions stated in Part 97. Look those up.

Don't have to look them up, I know them.

Technical stuff is just a means to that end.

Unimportant? Hardly important? Irrelevant?

No, just not of primary importance. A means to an end,
not the end in itself.

Then why do you permit the FCC to keep all those TECHNICAL
regulations?

Which ones? The technical regulations for amateur radio are very few,
very basic, and offer radio amateurs a lot of variety and freedom.

You just don't seem to understand that.

I just don't understand YOU, Jimmy.

It's understandable that you'd not understand a superior intellect, Len
;-) ;-)

OTOH I understand you all too well. That's why you're so hostile to me.

The "National Association for Amateur Radio" (nee' ARRL) is
the "club." Even so, their membership is only one of every
five U.S. amateur radio licensees. Why aren't there more?

Some disagree with League policies
Some think membership costs too much.
Some are inactive
Some don't understand why a national organization is needed.

You have taken a Poll to confirm this? :-)

Yes ;-)

btw, No-Code International's membership is less than 1% of US amateurs
even though there are no dues and NCI membership never expires.

Highly irrelevant.

Completely relevant. Proves the point.

NCI is NOT a "national association for amateur
radio."

That's true - it's "International". Or perhaps "Internationale"?

It exists for ONE purpose: Elimination of the code test
from amateur radio license examinations worldwide. That's it.

Len, you're and NCI BELIEVER. You're so biased that you cannot
conduct enough to see what really happens.

At least twice, NCI has gotten involved in proposed FCC rules
changes that have *nothing* to do with Morse Code testing. Of
course they have every right to comment on such changes, but
doing so disproves the claim that NCI exists for ONE purpose.

You have no activity in amateur radio and except for one outburst almost
six years ago, there's no indication you'll ever get an amateur license.

"Outburst?!?" BWAAAAAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Yes. Back in January of 2000, with your 'Extra out of the box' claim.

But it's still in the box.

Why, oh WHY must I show "an indication of interest?!?"

You don't. Neither does the English Teacher you criticize so much.

Who the fork are you to presume *I* MUST demonstrate to YOU
some kind of committment and dedication?!?!?

Who do I have to be?

If your ego is THAT big, then you should go over to Coslo's BBS
since you will "reach the threashold of space" long before his
big balloon will...

So you and the English teacher have the same level of involvement.

Nope. I am as involved as can be with my wife. None other.

As a bachelor I had an "involvement" with an English teacher,
a very nice one, in fact.

Try to think about marriage for YOU, Jimmy. It would make you
less of a one-track Believer.

Len, for all you know, I could have more marriage experience than
you have.

Really burns you not to know more about my personal life, huh?

You're not a licensee and and except for one outburst almost
six years ago, there's no indication you'll ever get an amateur
license.

Oh, oh, there goes that control-freak EGO again, Jimmy.

Yes, Len, your control-freak ego sure does go off at times.
Telling everyone How It Should Be.

Work on that. It's bad socially.

Perhaps the FCC chuckles over your comments, Len.

Irrelevant. Chances are they will take my comments seriously.

Odds are they chuckle, if not guffaw.

Doesn't matter, the PUBLIC has spoken to the FCC 3,794 times
through WT Docket 05-235.

And most of the PUBLIC wants at least some Morse Code testing
to be retained.

Tsk, tsk, you DO! See little gems of an accusatory nature
such as I should have obtained an amateur radio license
before accepting professional radio employment!

Who wrote that?

Dave Heil.

Where?

Show us the exact quote where he said you should have obtained
an amateur radio license before accepting professional radio
employment!

C'mon, show us the quote. Or maybe you can't, because it doesn't exist.

See, this is what I mean when I say that you make frequent factual
errors. I invite you to tune your Icom receiver to the low ends of the
bands 160-10m this coming weekend.

Why? I have no personal interest in morse code and no interest
in amateur radio contesting. Invitation denied.

Afraid you'll be proven wrong?

Tsk, there you go again with nasty attitude.

IOW, yes, you're afraid.

Jimmy boy, I'm quite aware of the EM spectrum and who occupies what
"bands."

But obviously not what goes on in the amateur radio bands.

Have been for a very long time...ever since getting my
"first job in radio."

So you're old. Big deal. You want a merit badge?

I know spectrum occupany OUTSIDE of the ham
bands on HF, on MF, on VHF, on UHF, and on up to 2.4 GHz.

Obviously not.

WHAT are YOU going to tell ME?

That Morse Code is alive and well in the amateur bands. As much
as that may bother you, it's true.

That contests are "popular?" I could find
that out by seeing the boosterism for that in print in CQ or QST.

Is contesting "operation" your main interest in amateur radio?

One of my main interests in amateur radio. I have several. You don't
seem
to have any.

Are you more interested in awards, trophies, pretty certificates
than radio for radio's sake? It sure sounds like it since you
love getting praise, even from friends and neighbors. :-)

Actually, I enjoy the competition, the operating, testing my skill and
equipment against others and my previous efforts. Awards, trophies
and certificates aren't why I contest.

This Thursday and Friday I was involved in Thanksgiving in the
literal sense.

 That's nice. What has it got to do with amateur radio?

 Good friends got together, didn't talk at all about amateur
radio
 or morse code.

Considering your near-complete ignorance of Morse Code and
amateur radio, it's a good thing you didn't talk about those
subjects.

Sunday is another nice
get-together with good people, and I don't expect any of the
talk will be about amateur radio or morse code or contests or
the beeping state of the radio art.

That's good, considering that you're hardly a good role model.

No "contests" of any real kind. Sunnuvagun!

Can't take the competition, huh?

This past weekend I hosted Thanksgiving for 12 people –
friends and family. I cooked a 21 pound turkey with homemade
stuffing, made homemade bread, did it up right. Others did the
vegetables and desserts.

Can you cook, Len?