From: an old friend on Nov 28, 2:42 pm

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Nov 26, 4:11 pm
wrote:
From: on Fri, Nov 25 2005 4:26 pm
wrote:


Having seen some of the handwritten "comments" sent in on
the 2,272 filings in WT Docket 98-143 and ALL of the 3,795
filings in WT Docket 05-235, some are a hilarious barrel
of laffs! :-)

[ chuckle, chuckle ]

So you really don't know what you're talking about when
you talk about FCC "chuckling" over some comments.

he can make the same assumetion you can

Mark, there's something curious about morsemen. They are very
SERIOUS about their hobby and INTENSE on certain skills. Their
sense of humor is limited only to THEM "laughing" at those who
disagree on telegraphy testing.

BTW, there's 3,796 filings now, one was added on the 28th. :-)


By the way, Docket 98-143 had 303 ADDITIONAL filings after the
twice-revised final end date of 15 Jan 05, the latest being
made on 5 August 2005! :-)

Why does that matter?

becuase it isn't suposed to hapen at least if it does they are all
supose to have been mailed before the deadline

The specific date periods on comments applies to the
Commission's activities on decision-making for a final
Memorandum Report and Order. That date period is determined
by statements made in the publishing of a docket/proceedure
in the Federal Register. Standard practice at the FCC.

In the case of publishing NPRM 05-143, the Commission was 6
calendar weeks LATE. NPRM 05-143 was opened to the public on
19 July 2005. Publishing in the Federal Register didn't
happen until 31 August 2005. The date period for comments
was not specifically stated in NPRM 05-143, was specifically
stated in the Federal Register on 31 August 2005.

The normal delay on public release to publishing is anywhere
from zero days to a week. A few have taken longer, but it
would be a VERY long search to find a docket/proceeding that
was delayed SIX WEEKS. In those SIX WEEKS DELAY the public
filed 52% of all comments filed.

The "public" may not be fully aware of the official comment
period beginning date. The Commission is fairly speedy on
getting proceedings published in the Federal Register. The
"public" does not consist of just attorneys and beaurocrats
handling law, so they would generally be unaware of that
delay. Such a long time was unexpected.

why does it seem you don't care about the rul of of law when it suits
you

Jimmy Noserve only cares about the preservation of morse code,
everything from "operating skill" to the license test. He
can't bear to give up any of that.


Oh, right...the ARRL TOLD YOU! Or you channeled St. Hiram on
the subject and you got the number in a vision?

FCC received over 6000 comments on the "incentive licensing" proposals,
Len. Without the internet. That's a fact.

indeed shwoing what a disaster the idea was

how the ARRL tired to kill the ars

Mark, Jimmy has NOT proven his "fact." The only way to determine
that "fact" is to visit the FCC Reading Room in DC and view all
the filings. Those old dockets and proceedings aren't on-line.

As to "disaster," that is subjective opinion. In the long run,
"incentive licensing" only served to harden the class
distinction among licensees. It got too cumbersome for the
future to the Commission, so they streamlined it via FCC 99-412.

The League lobbied for, and got "incentive licensing." Old-timers
of the League loved radiotelegraphy, following the "tradition"
established by its first president, St. Hiram. Old-timers
wanted to prove Their radiotelegraphy skill was the "highest"
attribute of amateurism. They got it, complete with rank-
status-privilege. Especially the privileges. They were better
than anyone...in their minds.

The beginning of the solid-state era had begun.

The beginning had begun? Third graders write better than that, Len.

bad jimmie Stevie job is to play speling cop

Sister Nun of the Above got into the act, spanking ruler at the
ready. She didn't hit anything, though.

Sister apparently has never used the word "jibe," thought I
was "jiving her." :-)


You weren't a ham then and you're not one now. Morse Code is one
form of excellence in radio, btw - then and now.

only in your opinion and that of others

Up to mid-2000, the highest-rate telegraphy skill was
NECESSARY to achieve the "highest" class license.

IMO it has been one of the banes of the ARS for decades

True enough.

But, look out, I can see Sister approaching with her ruler!
She is going to criticize use of the word "bane!" :-)


In other words, you had nothing to do with FCC then, either.

"Nothing?!?" Mais non!

Nothing. You didn't work for FCC, didn't have anything to do with
FCC rules for the Amateur Radio Service.

a flat out lie Jim he has had something to do with making the FCC rules
as has Myself Bil Sohl yourself and a couple of thousand others

Jimmy is getting desperate on "having to do with" stuff. :-)

The FCC has had commentary periods for nearly all the major
issues affecting U.S. radio amateurs since its creation in
1934. [exceptions are federal orders to cease transmission
on Presidential orders and the "housekeeping" changes to
Parts of Title 47 which regarded legal clarification of some
regulations corrections]

The Constitution of the United States gives all its citizens
the Right to address their government...on anything. The
comment period of dockets and proceedings at the FCC is one
way to do that on specific radio regulatory issues.

Jimmy seems very territorial. He regards federal amateur radio
regulations as "private turf" which can ONLY be discussed by
licensed radio operators to their government. That is wrong.
The FCC must listen to ALL...including English teachers who
haven't the foggiest notion of what "radio" is, let alone
amateur radio (she had to research the subject through
WikiPedia). :-)

Both Bill Sohl and Carl Stevenson have appeared in-person
before the FCC in regards to the code-test/no-code-test
issue. That's about as close as ANY in here have been to
the regulation-decision-makers without actually working
there (as Phil Kane did).

The Staff and Commissioners at the FCC decide what is to be
changed and how to change radio regulations...DEPENDING on
input from the "public." [a "researching" of Parts 0 and 1
of Title 47 C.F.R. will explain that, also the Communicaitons
Act of 1934, a Law passed by Congress]


Had already renewed that First Phone once...through the Long
Beach, CA, FCC Field Office (which was/is in the San Pedro
harbor area). I'd applied for, and gotten two CB licenses (no
test, never was a test for them).

Did FCC ever turn anybody down for a cb permit?

Are you still on cb, Len?

why should he not be on CB

Citizens Band Radio Service had "permits?" :-) Strange, my
forms said they were LICENSES. No tests at all required.

Were any "turned down?" I don't really know. I've heard of those
but never met anyone who was "turned down."

I opt NOT to bother with CB radio since it is not to my needs
in communicating anything by radio. The little two-way radio
terminal called a "cell phone" serves both me and my wife very
adequately in mobile communications needs.

My old Johnson Viking Messenger CB radio still works, is still
operating within FCC regulations. It is a relatively easy
task to connect it up to an antenna (mag-mount) in the car,
plug it into the car's 12 VDC system, and operate. If the
vibrator high-voltage supply will continue working, it is as
reliable as any old tube radio. [vibrator supplies were NEVER
considered reliable, but they were terribly cheap in consumer
grade tube equipments] Living within a mile of I-5 passing
through has shown that a few channels for CB are way too few
for the hundreds of thousands of CB users...years ago.


Cbers seem by and large politeir than hams with folks they disagree
with they can be a bit vulgar for my taste on the air, but there are 40
channels to choose from

Irrelevant to Jimmy's remarks. All Jimmy wants to do is show
contempt for CB. Since he was living in 1958 when that service
(on the 27 MHz band) was created, he feels contemptuous of all
who have not taken a federal test to "qualify" for radio
transmission below 30 MHz. :-)

[I think he was born an amateur...:-) ]

CB communications are "Too vulgar?" I've heard much, much
greater vulgarity in the military service (which Jimmy was
never a part of nor will he ever be). I've heard greater
vulgarity on shop floors from union members. I've heard
greater vulgarity in the black sections of Los Angeles. I need
to brush up on my Spanish to find out if the language there in
the barrios is "too vulgar." :-)


Like I said - you had nothing to do with amateur radio policy
back then, nor with FCC's regulation of amateur radio...

more lies Jim

Jimmy, who never worked IN the FCC (and will never do so),
thinks that just having an amateur license means he had
"something to do with amateur radio regulations." :-)

Jimmy is just being "vulgar." :-)


Based on my "first job in radio" I already knew that morse
code was a dead end in radio in 1964, 41 years ago.

Well, you were wrong, Len. Because Morse Code is still alive and
well in radio today.

Tsk, tsk, Jimmy's working receiver can't pick up anything but
the "low end" of the HF amateur bands...and he thinks that
radiotelegraphy is still a big mode in radio? Incredible!


Why bother pursuing a dying technique back then?

Morse Code wasn't "dying" back then and it isn't "dying" now - in
amateur radio, anyway.

not what I hear

You have to give Jimmy some slack, Mark. Since his receiver
can't pick up anything outside the "low end" of HF ham bands,
he thinks HF is still "alive with the sounds of morse code"
(as if Julie Andrews were singing it on top of a hill).

How many techniques did you pursue back then which are
long gone - dead - now? Does anybody use 100 wpm teletypewriters
anymore? Do broadcast stations have FCC licensed engineers
on duty while they're on the air anymore? Etc.

Actually, those electromechanical teletypewriters with 100
WPM throughput are still in use in a few places...but they
are waaayyyyyy down in numbers. Teletype Corporation went
defunct some years ago...they couldn't produce a product
inexpensive enough to handle written communications needs.
Even TDDs have dropped electromechanical teletypewriters in
favor of smaller, easier to use solid-state terminals.

The requirements for licensed COMMERCIAL radio operators at
radio broadcasting stations is down but I haven't checked
to see if broadcasting regulations changed to allow ALL.
An amateur radio license was NEVER a "qualification" to
operate anything but an amateur radio on amateur frequencies.

Vacuum tube design and use in designs is almost kaput. The
solid-state devices made most of them obsolete. Tubes remain
only as very high-power transmitter final amplifiers, as
wideband (one octave plus) amplifiers in microwaves, as
magnetrons in microwave ovens, as assorted klystrons in
microwave radios. CRTs are going bye-bye, replaced by solid-
state displays in TV sets (to press a ****y point, "liquid-
state" in LCD screens). A very few optical detection
devices use multi-stage photomultipliers. NODs (Night
Observation Devices) still depend on a special photodetector
and photon multiplier tube set. Oh, and high-power radars
still use pulsed maggies for those transmitters. Tubes are
now used only as REPLACEMENTS...except by those who can't
hack engineering of solid-state circuits...or long for days
of yore, when they were born (or before).


Your value system is very clear, Len - if something in radio
took some of your time or effort but didn't pay back in dollars,
you avoided it.

if your statement is accurate (not comenting on that yea or nea) so
what you value nothing without involing Morse Code

Poor Jimmy is verging on a breakdown. He is picking up on the
old socialist or communist sloganeering against evil, filthy
capitalists who have obtained money the old fashioned way...
they EARNED it! Jimmy sounds like he doesn't have much money.

Tsk, tsk. I entered electronics and radio in the vacuum tube
era and learned how to design circuits using tubes. Had to
put aside everything but the basics of those circuits in order
to work with transistors, then ICs. Took lots of learning
AND relearning to do all that and I did it on my own time.
It was worth it in the knowledge acquired, the experience
gained in making successful designs, eminently satisfactory
to me. Lots and lots of new things were learned out of sheer
interest in learning more about NEW areas, things that were
NOT of personal monetary gain.

Jimmy can't shift out of his League-conditioned thinking about
morsemanship being the ultimate skill in radio. He doesn't
understand how it is to BEGIN in HF communications WITHOUT
any morse code mode needs. He must really resent others
who've entered the bigger world of radio communications without
being required in any way to be morsemen.


you can use money to feed yourself can't do that with morse

One can waste a LOT of time looking for radiotelegraphy jobs!
Those are quite scarce! If Jimmy wasn't so old, he could join
the Army and be an "army of one" analyzing foreign morse code
radio intercepts (but I'll bet he would hate the Ft. Huachuca
M.I. school in the summertime).

I doubt there is one job opening in the entire USA that requires
any manual telegraphy (morse code) skills for wired
communications now. If he joined SAG or SEG he might get a part
in some western movie or TV show as an actor playing the part of
a telegrapher.

Well, Jimmy could go to sea if he got a Radiotelegraph (Commercial)
license. Problem is, he'd have to use SSB voice, one of the TORs
(Teletypewriter Over Radio), and VHF FM voice for most ship
masters. Jimmy wouldn't like that. He couldn't pop into the
galley and cook big turkeys at his whim.

Confusion say: Man with one-track mind often get train of
thought derailed.

bit bit