You made the claim, the burden of proof is one you.
Touche!! You got me there! I yield!

I am only too aware of all the orthodox hams

out there!
Which has nothing to do with your original claim.

Ok, Let me rephrase my statement. Perhaps I was hasty in how I tried to
convey what I was thinking. I shall try to restate my position.
I am supportive of all those who wish to get a ham license regardless of the
class of license they wish to obtain, what they have to learn to get it, how
well they actually do on the "test", or whether they are electronics
engineers or from CB, bootleggers or otherwise. I recognize that there are
those who belittle nocodes, or those who are of a lesser priviledged license
class than themselves and certainly cb'ers. Incentive licensing should have
never happened IMHO as it seems to create a sort of caste system or
mentalilty among at least some (as opposed to "many" HA!) hams. These people
make too much noise so perhaps they are attributed with numbers in the
"many" catagory. I would like to see "many" cb'ers become hams as I would
like to see more activity on bands when they are not open as happens on cb
although there is not much choice about that if cb is the only band you
operate on. I know many cool openings are missed as usually no one is much
on the bands that are not open. I don't care if they still use cb or not
once licensed. It is all a hobby not a religion, or a way of life, so there
should be a lot of latitude given to those who participate. My roots are in
cb radio and I had a fairly short but good time there and still have 6 close
friends that went to ham radio more or less when I did in 1970. I can lookup
alls for about a dozen cb'ers from the late 60's that also became hams that
I just haven't kept in touch with. Three of us used to have callsigns that
were sequential which was fun for a while. There are certainly some aspects
of cb operating that SHOULD be imported to ham radio. You will have better
luck getting travel info on cb than a 2 meter repeater!! Cb has it all over
ham radio for local mobile operating mostly due to numbers of mobile
operators. You can't find out what the traffic jam is all about on a 2 meter
repeater very often, or what freeway conditions are like before you decide
to jump on the interstate. I could go on but will save you from more of my
rambling!

Soon the code will be dropped and it will be

easy to get a license.

It's easy to get a license now.

...Compared to when I got my (had them all)

licenses it sure as hell is!! Try taking them in

an FCC office when you know the engineer in

charge has had complaints in the past about

you bootlegging on CB!


Ha! That had to chap his ass.
Perhaps but I think he was glad! We were out of his hair really. my other
two buddies had been called by him (his name was Deitz) and he suggested
that they get ham licenses and why they should. He never called me! What was
I?? Chopped Liver?? Scared one of them to death with that call! He got rid
of his cb ( Midland 13-880), amp (Hygain(?) Afterburner) and took the
antenna down. He sure learned the code fast!!




I am not by any means anti-cw. I just do not

think proficiency in it suggests you will be sort

of a "squared away ham".


The same goes for ham licensure, period.
True story!

Nor do I think CW will die away.

Nor do I.

I do not find it to be either a reliable or valid

indicator of overall proficiency in ham radio.


Well, an indicator of advancement in the hobby is most certainly code.
I was thinking more in terms of just being sort of forced to learn it.

Perhaps you think it would be best to have a

typing test as an element for ham tests?

Nah!
GOOD! I can't type worth a dang!

Because digital modes and apparatus isn't as fascinating to the
dx-loving oldtimers compared to simply doing it yourself with nothing
but the rig, the antenna, sky, and mother nature.
Touche!

Hell! If you can't type you are gonna have a

hard time competing in contests (should you

desire to)! You pretty much have to be able to

type well to log maybe 1000 Q's in a weekend

contest into a logging program. It is not that

Morse prevents CB'ers from becoming hams!


The glass is half empty from your perspective, half full from mine.
There is no argument or contention among anyone that amateur radio
declined when the nocode ticket was introduced.

Not sure I understand that one correctly


Myself and several friends are sufficient proof

of that!


The increased number of actions taken by the FCC against nocodes
compared to the number of actions taken against other class of licenses
is proof of the decline, not your personal experiences.
Not sure if it proves a decline. Could it be that there is a larger influx
of new
no code hams and the actions taken against them is proportionate to what it
was before?
I was just saying that Morse itself does not prevent cb'ers or anyone else
from becoming a ham, it is more their state of mind about spending the time
and effort to get it down that gets in the way.



It is clearly the mindset of the learner that

prevents them learning it and getting a

license! That is not the issue to me. My

opinion is that there are more important things
to know than Morse to get started in ham

radio.



Yet others regard it as the foundation. Considering SOS is universal,
code can get through when no other communication will, even if one must
bang on an object. Extremely helpful in dire emergencies.

Yes they do, but not sure they should.


"Many" only means a large number,

numerous as defined by Mr. Webster. Pretty

subjective definition don't you think?? It

doesn't mean most or an overwhelming

number, or even 51 percent, just "a lot". CUL

in KW alley! _._

Fair enough. The matter is, there have been no reg contributors to this
group who have spoken against or try and prevented a cb'er from
obtaining a license. expressing a personal opinion of why an individual
chooses not to get licensed is not the same as speaking against another
who chooses to do so.

Likely the case, I am not a regular here so will yield to your knowledge of
that.
Of course this is rec.radio cb so I would imagine most here have some
positive
interest in cb so I would think that there would not be a whole lot of
posts that
are negative about cb or do cb bashing.
Your points are well taken, I like your style, you speak your mind! You
challenged me
to support my position or surrender it. I tried to meet you halfway and
revise it anyway!
You present things well, and I gotta think about it because of it. I could
talk to you for hours
on the radio about this stuff! I sure never spent this much time on QRZ.com
getting involved in a discussion!! See ya in the pileups!