RadioBanter - View Single Post

December 6th 05, 09:50 AM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
From: on Sun, Dec 4 2005 4:35 pm
wrote:
From: on Sat, Dec 3 2005 8:28 am
wrote:
From: on Dec 2, 5:33 pm
wrote:
From: on Tues, Nov 29 2005 3:38 am
wrote:
From: on Nov 27, 3:55 pm

In other words, you and your neighbors wanted to stop other people
from building certain types of buildings on *their own land* - because
it would mess up your *view*.

The only "other people" were contractor firms. Nobody owned
"their own" land yet until the development was finished and
inspected and approved by the city.

The contractor/developers owned the land, right? They wanted to
develop it in a way you didn't like, so you tried to stop them.

The neighborhood organization was against the ZONING change
from "R" (pure residential) to "R1" (residences plus
aparments). The original plan was for "senior citizen
apartments" which we neighbors did not like.

Why not? You're a senior citizen ;-)

Yes, a two-
story house or apartment would block my VIEW that I enjoyed
for over 30 years here.

So you think your "right" to a VIEW is more important than
people having a place to live....

Perhaps you want me to sit back and take whatever
"authorities" toss at me without complaint? HELL NO!

Indeed.

But you want *me* to sit back and take whatever rules
changes "authorities" (like the FCC) toss out without
complaint or protest. HELL NO!

The analogy is clear, whether you admit it or not.

None of us neighbors did.

None of us procodetest folks did either.

We showed up at the Zoning
Commission meeting and made our voices heard.

Yes - you tried to stop progress and development, and to
restrict what others could do on their land. You wanted
the neighborhood to stay just as it was, despite the
changes in American society. (more senior citizens,
more people, etc.)

It was for
naught according to a later investigation of graft on the
part of the Zoning Commission.

Did anyone go to jail? Was anyone found guilty of any
corruption?

That parcel of land got
rezoned to R1 over a decade ago and that was that. No
action on development until several years later.

You folks missed a chance. When the first developer went
bankrupt, you could have all banded together and bought the land.
Then you'd have been able to control its development. But instead
of that free-market, capitalist approach, where you put your money
where your view is, you wanted The Government to value your
views over those of the people who owned that land.

Perhaps you weren't really learning the REAL Ben Franklin
or even REAL history prior to 1776. Franklin was a
royalist to begin with.

Almost all the revolutionaries were royalists to begin with.

Took him a VERY long time to
actually side with the "revolutionaries." [recorded
history, by the way]

WE neighbors weren't sheep nor
anything like that and protested.

Let's see - in his time, anyone seen as a traitor to the crown
could be executed by being drawn and quartered. Which is
more than a little unpleasant, particularly with family and friends
made to watch.

What did you neighbors risk in your protest?

after spending 9 months of re-arranging the vacant land.

How does anyone "rearrange" land? With a bulldozer?

All manner of earth-moving equipment were used to move
220,000 cubic yards of soil (value from contractor
final report, initial estimate was 250,000 cubic yards).
Actual earth moving took eight months until the final
moving was done for drainage, roadway, and forming the
final lay of each plot.

A little digging is always needed.

Nine months of the OHSA

OSHA

back-up beepers getting us up
at 7 AM each working day of the week and some Saturdays.

Awwww....why not get up before 7 AM?

So - you thought your "view" was more important than
the newcomers' property rights.

No, our neighborhood organization was against changing
the ZONING from pure residential to residences-with-
allowed-apartments.

OK, that too. Yet those apartments never got built, right?

And what's wrong with residences-with-allowed-apartments?
People live in the apartments, right? They're not dangerous
or a nuisance. It's not like they wanted to put a refinery or a
chemical
plant there.

You thought that those
15 acres should not be developed, even though you
didn't own them.

Our neighborhood organization would accept the original
"R" zoning rating of single-family residences. The
Zoning Commission heard that. We objected to the "R1"
zoning that allowed apartments.

Why? Because they were 2 story? Because they'd house senior
citizens? Because you just don't like change?

You resisted changes that brought in new people and more progress.

What "progress?" :-)

Diversity and new forms of housing in your restricted, uptight,
NIMBY neighborhood. Why can't you accept a little change?

You sure preach to others about accepting change and not
standing in the way of progress when it comes to amateur
radio rules - which don't affect you at all because you're not
going to become a ham anyway.

You have no huckin idea of what
the development was/is, its original shape, the shape it is
in now, landscaping or anything else.

You have no huckin idea of what operating Morse Code
on the amateur bands was/is, their original shape, the shape
they're in now, the changes that removing the code test
will bring, or anything else.

You don't like an "outsider: like me commenting on "your"
neighborhood, but you demand that everyone accept
your comments on a "neighborhood" (the ham bands)
where you're a complete outsider.

You are trying to
toss out nasty sarcastic bad words to us that were here
before them. :-)

Really?

The SECOND developer managed to develop a walled community
that houses about 150 total, nearly all with little bitty
yards separated by concrete block walls.

Isn't that the walled community you bragged about some time back?
Are those houses worth more or less than yours, now?

Right now there's a possibility of civil action by two
neighbors where the original slope to the edge of the new
walled community gave way and inundated their property.
We'll just have to wait for that to sort itself out.
Meanwhile, you will no doubt make nasty remarks to my
old neighbors for DARING to PROTEST part of THEIR land
from being covered? :-)

Not at all. If they suffered real damages, they deserve their
day in court.

You clung to the past and tried to hold back the future.

I'm sorry, but you just don't grasp this NON-RADIO situation.

Oh yes I do.

ZONING laws, particularly in residential areas, ARE where
the past is protected...for those who ALREADY live there.

Why? And if so, why should radio be any different?

And you failed.

Yes, we did. I reported that. :-) That's the breaks in
political situations.

And you FAILED.

Yes. But ONLY for the ZONING change. We were able to
enrich the pockets of some Zoning Commission members from
payola from the first contractor...which led to him going
out of business. :-) The second contractor is not in a
good situation either since that company is forced to
settle one way or the other.

NO apartments were built, only single-family residences
were finally built. That is a partial victory although
the Zoning rating still allows for apartments on that land.

What I find most interesting is that you fought change, progress,
and newcomers. And you thought your views should count for
more than the wants and needs of those who owned the land.

What I find "interesting" is your continued hostility and
ignorance of the situation, even when explained to you.

It's not ignorance or hostility. It's an alternate view of things. You
don't like alternate views.

I have well over a hundred images showing the earth-moving
and the house building, have a small box of documents that
go back 15 or so years on that parcel of land, copies of
plans, etc. Our neighborhood organization didn't take
anything lightly.

Because you didn't want change or progress. You wanted
things to always stay the way they were, regardless of the
effect on others....

beep beep

Ah! You're imitating an OSHA backup beeper!