"David Eduardo" wrote:



Interstates are elevated,

....if you mean "by 15 feet above the original grade," then maybe.
That's as stupid a generalization as I've *ever* heard. But I've come
to expect that out of this thread.

and mostly clear of obstructions by nature. The
fact is, there is not a listenable signal to any Denver station much south
of Monument, except for sporadic places where height gives a path into
distant locations. The chances of any significant listening occurring when
the signal comes and goes and is unlistenable on average radios is nil.

No Denver FM has a city grade signal (70 dbu) that gets south of
Larkspur.

70dBu is a pretty serious signal. While that might be the ideal, you
might find that even today's receivers can do well with less.

Nearly all reported listening to FMs occurs inside the 64 dbu contour.
Research by third parties as well as Arbitron itself where diaries are
compared to coverage maps confirms this is a pattern that has held true for
decades.

You may put up with DX-quality signals, but the average listener does not.
This is why AM skywave is not much listened to any mo the quality is
ratty and the reception is inconsistent.

This. Is. Not. DX.

50 miles is not DX.

100 miles is not DX.

Get out of your box and breathe some fresh air, fergawdsakes. You
have an overly simplified model of the world and it doesn't fit
reality. From what you say in this thread I would suggest you do
substantial harm to those stations unlucky enough to hire you.

But then, consultants are known for doing that in my field, too.


You are DXing, and putting up with come-and-go signals. Listeners are not
DXers. If the signal is not perfect, they don't listen.

These are steady, strong, clean signals.

If you were really concerned about clean signals, you'd be screaming
at receiver manufacturers to clean up capture ratios so that the
multipath doesn't garble them to hell and gone.

Oh, you work with running AM into the ground... never mind...


In other words, what they do doesn't reflect reality. Your "listener
or tow [sic]" is probably more like 10 here, 20 here, 5 there, adding
up to the hundreds to thousands.

First, there are only a few stations that even get, consistently, outside
their own markets.

By your filtered numbers. Which I simply do not accept as an accurate
reflection of reality. Use them all you want for your narrow view,
but I believe your methodology is *fundamentally* flawed.

My numbers, again are not filtered. They are not even "mine." They are
Arbitron numbers. Arbitron diaries instruct each participant to write down
everything they listen to, day by day, for a week. They do not say, "only
local staitons" or anything else. Just, "hat did you hear on the radio." If
anyone listened to distant stations in any measured market, it gets picked
up. As I mentioned, 2 people out of 3000 sampled in Phoenix had listened to
KFI in the last 12-week survey period. Since that is not enough listening to
project into the usinverse, it is not in the published printed reportes, but
is in the electroinc reports that stations and ad agencies get.

Everything is measured. But if there is no behaviour of the kind you want to
see, it is not the fault of Arbitron. It is the fact that people just do not
listen to out of market stations any more.

In another response, I mentioned that Casper has, now, 11 stations. There is
no need to put up with bad signals or to wait until after sunset to listen
to the radio. Nearly everything you could want is on the air there. No need
to be a DXer to get the music or talk you want.

My whole point is that there are several factors that have changed since the
days when families gatered 'round the radio at night to hear The Lone Ranger
on a staion sometimes hundreds of miles away. First, there are vastly more
stations. Second, evenings are no longer prime time; 6 AM to 7 M 9 is. And,
third, most listening is to FM which seldom gets any usable signal out of
each station's home market, unless it is in the fringes of an adjacent
market not far removed.

CKLW was not "Detroit / Windsor" It was a Windsor station always, and
used
"The Motor City" as a euphemistic ID point.

It was a Windsor station, but it always announced as Detroit /
Windsor. You may want to visit some of the many historical pages on
CKLW before you make any claims as to what it did when.

since I am mentioned on the CKLW tribute site as a contributor, I think I
know a bit about the staiton. It's glory years were from the time it became
a "Drake" station in the mid-60's until the early 70's. By then, the FMs in
detroit, like WDRQ in 1972, had nocked it off and it was on a decline. As
CHR FMs came on in Toledo, Cleveland, etc, it died a quick death in those
places, too.

As for WHK and WIXY, they had their listeners. WHK targeted a
different market -- country --

WHK was THE Top 40 well into the 60's,a nd then was in a battle with WIXY
until the FMs camy. WGRC (the General Cinema staitons) and WNCR killed both.
CKLW was an afterthought in the 70's in Cleveland.

I'm talking about the 70s. WHK was country in the senventies. I
can't remember a time when it wasn't -- not that there wasn't such a
time, but it was before my time.


There is no adjustment. Arbitron must, to keep its accreditation, use
accepted statistical practices.

Accepted and accredited by whom? If you are measuring listener
density by zip code, of *course* you aren't going to see an impact
outside of the local area.

But you cover an enormous amount of territory broadly. All those ones
and twos add up. ...and you throw them out by setting the initial
conditions so poorly.

You want to know the listener density by zip code, and so you get
numbers that are utterly misleading about the overall listener
community.


In statistics and polling, data which is not
projectable onto a universe is not usable. So there has to be a minimum
level of listening for a station to show up in the printed Arbitrron list.
still, all subscribers (radio and agencies) get the data that shows that KFI
got a share of 0.0 in Phoenix on a cume of 2,300 persons.

Who cares? You aren't selling to Phoenix. You're selling to your
listening community. LA first and foremost, everyone second. If you
can sell to someone who can use LA companies for something -- by mail
order, by phone order, by web page, by whatever -- you still *sell*.

The fact is, that
is so little that no advertiser or station would ever care... when the #1
station in Phoenix has 100 or 200 times that listening reach.

But you. Shouldn't. Target. Phoenix. I don't give a crap what
Phoenix thinks. I *do* give a crap about what my listening
demographic thinks, be they in Phoenix or at some desert intersection.
If they buy what you advertise, then you are making money.


You know, I trust, that advertisers only buy the very top stations in their
target demographics?

But you are measuring geographics, not demographics. By that
standard, the dense high-rises are better targets than suburbia.


You already stated you are inside the Denver metro. You have dozens and
dozens of local stations. Including KFI.

No, I'm not, and I didn't state that. I'm outside of Denver Metro.
I'm in Ft. Collins -- Greeley by your numbers. Yet anything beyond
grocery shopping I do in Denver and Boulder because the selection and
quality is better. I think I've stopped in Greeley maybe twice. I
made my first purchase of substance in Ft. Collins two weeks ago.

But... whatever. I'm sitting herre arguing with a calculator, for
gawdssake. You just keep pretending the world fits your model -- you
can't even get it out of your head long enough to *think* for a
second.

You will be the doom of over the air broadcasting. Check back in 10
years; we'll see how the health of the industry has changed in the
last decade.

--
Eric F. Richards

"This book reads like a headache on paper."
http://www.cnn.com/2001/CAREER/readi...one/index.html