RadioBanter - View Single Post

March 17th 06, 01:29 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.antenna

wrote:
It sounds like Cecil is trying to find a way to make his theory fit
despite the fact that models and measurements show the phase shift is
zero, and demanding I agree with his unusual theories like current
that doesn't flow, phaseless signals, and in his latest post antennas
behaving like dc circuits.

Again, it is not my theory. It is the distributed network model
known to succeed when the lumped-circuit model fails in the presence
of standing waves. There is no useful phase information left in
a standing wave current. DC current and standing wave current are
equally 100% ineffective at measuring the delay through a coil.

I have asked this technical question multiply times: How does one
use a signal with unchanging phase to measure the delay through a
coil? The answer is that one cannot.

All that aside, it appears the main argument is Cecil's theory requires
measuring current that doesn't flow ...

No, using a signal with unchanging phase to try to measure delay
is your main argument, not mine. I know it is foolish to measure
a current with unchanging phase. Any phase measurement is
meaningless.

cos(kz)*cos(wt) doesn't possess phase information. One can
tell that from the formula. Unlike you, Gene Fuller understands
the meaning of those standing wave equation terms.

Gene Fuller wrote:
In a standing wave antenna problem, such as the one you describe,
there is no remaining phase information. Any specific phase
characteristics of the traveling waves died out when the startup
transients died out.

Phase is gone. Kaput. Vanished. Cannot be recovered. Never to be
seen again.

The only "phase" remaining is the cos (kz) term, which is really
an amplitude description, not a phase.

Do you disagree with what Gene had to say?

"PHASE IS GONE. KAPUT. VANISHED. CANNOT BE RECOVERED. NEVER TO BE
SEEN AGAIN." In other words, one cannot use standing wave current
to measure the delay through a coil. Delay doesn't exist in a standing
wave current, i.e. "PHASE IS GONE."

The worse part of that is he is
demanding I answer something I cannot answer ...

There's nothing wrong with admitting ignorance. Just please cease
trying to disguise your ignorance as some technical fact. When
are you going to correct the technical errors on your web page?

75m mobile bugcatcher loading coils possess a velocity factor
of approximately 0.0175. They are about 6.6 inches long. The
delay through that coil is ~0.128 wavelength at 4 MHz. That's
a delay of 32 degrees. That's how much electrical length the
coil is occupying when it is used on 4 MHz.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp