Peter Dougherty wrote:


I would venture to guess that if you have 10 or 15 members who put up
a few thousand dollars/euros/zlotys/rand/pesos/etc, give months of
their time to logistics and planning, going away on such a trip, etc,
that their goals are either to give that entity to as many hams as
want it on as many bands as possible or for a more targeted goal, such
as a focus on the low bands or WARC bands, focusing on digital modes,
focusing on satellite and 6 metres, etc. More often than not these
goals are on the team's Web site. You'll never hear a complaint from
me if a station's goals are to concentrate on EU low bands, since I
only operate casually on 40 and 80 (no space for a 160 antenna) and
I'm not in the EU.

However, when there are no stated objectives, or the stated objective
is to work as many stations as possible worldwide and they operate in
ways that belie that statement, I think it's fair to hold some degree
of criticism. Conversely, if you were in the EU and an operation
stated its goal was to work as many EU stations as possible, yet they
sat and worked only strong W/VEs all day and night long, you'd have a
valid complaint.

No, you wouldn't. The "objectives" are subjective to begin with, and
even though most of them encompass "working as many as possible", this
typically means within the ability, capacity, moods and limitations of
the operators. Not everyone is a top notch operator and subsequently the
level of the dx-ped operation varies. But so what? If dxing meant that
all the entities were available on request all the time, no one would be
interested. I know I wouldn't; hell, collecting napkins would be more
exciting.
Second, even if the operation was in violation of all its objectives, so
what? If the ops paid for their own trip, then it is their prerogative
who, when, where and how they work or refuse to work. We have a choice
of waiting our turn or walking away. We certainly don't have a right to
complain on the air, jam the pile-up or vent our frustration in any
similar idiotic way, which happens quite frequently.

That in order to mount a dx-ped, all the ops must be top notch dx-ers

Yes, it's my belief that this *should* be one of the criteria for
inclusion in a DXpedition to a rare "most-wanted" entity.

As someone once said: beliefs are like assholes, everyone has one and
they all stink. My stinking belief in this case is the opposite of
yours. It would be nice if all the dx-peds were staffed by A1 ops, but
why should that be a criterion? I like the challenge of working a crappy
dx-ped.

I'm not saying everyone should be #1 on the Honor Roll, but they
should be
experienced and savvy in the ways of DX, know what to listen for, know
how to control a pileup, etc. This, to my mind, is the single most
important aspect of the exercise. I'd rather an operation have 10
top-notch operators with 100W and wires than ten clueless but
well-intentioned newbies with a kW and yagis.

I'll take both and work them if I can. If not, I'll work them some other
time. Where's the urgency?

It's the job of the team organizer to invite along the most qualified
people he or she can find.

Peter, I have a feeling you're taking dxing way too seriously. You talk
of "investing time and effort", "target areas", "jobs"... it is still a
hobby, after all. Let me just say that I personally spend an
disproportionally high amount of time on ham radio, but you have to have
a clear demarcation line between the enjoyment of it and taking it
seriously.

In all seriousness, though, you are taking my positions on each of
these aspects and applying the most extreme reply. Maybe it's a Usenet
thing, I don't know. My thought is that each operator should be
conversant in the language that will be used primarily in the
operation.

And why would that be the case? So they can spend 99.99% of the time
dishing out "you're fivenine, qrz"? I don't see a need to be fluent in
English where all one ever needs is three and a half standard phrases.
If anything, this just invites annoying idiots' questions and requests
for 160m, RTTY, QSL info, listening for "my friend", etc.

To be honest, in my mind a good operation has operators from all over
the world, or at least operators who (between them) are conversant in
a few major languages -- English, Japanese, French and Spanish being
the most often heard. The reality is, however, that English is more
often than not the default language of operation, and, for variou$
rea$on$, the focus is often on the U$A, therefore, it should be
obvious that a team should be able to think in English and speak it
with reasonable clarity.

I don't see how that's obvious in the 59-QRZ operation, but that's just
me. There are hundreds of first class contest ops with limited English
skills, which doesn't seem to be hampering their scores one bit.

Again, yes, they should if their goals include North America. All of
the major world-class operations do this -- it's called planning. Is
it too much trouble to ask somebody who's going to travel halfway
around the world to study their targets a little? To understand that
we can't use SSB below 7150, or that there are huge numbers of
operators who can't legally transmit in SSB below 14.225 and 21.300
(who would just LOVE to send a Q$L afterward)?

This is what differentiates a top-notch operation from a second-rate
or third-rate operation. I don't think the leaders of these operations
are deliberately trying to cheese-off the Americans (though in this
geo-political climate, who knows). I think it's more a case of
inexperienced DXpeditioners from EU or other entities who are very
well-meaning but not knowledgeable enough to do things well.

OK, let's say all of this is true. What do you propose be done about it,
other than the free Internet steam venting? You talk about such
operations causing "more ill-will than goodwill". I say, good for them
and the more the better. Dxing is supposed to be a game of chance,
patience and skills, not an instant gratification for the gimme
generation. What about rare DXCC entities with native ops? Should they
all follow our demand for first class skills or risk being dismissed as
"bad op", "lid", "deaf", "horrible", "idiot", "$$$", etc. (all of these
courtesy of the Cluster police).

That in order to "give a new one to as many hams as possible", the
operation must be able to provide S9+ signal into all areas of the World

Please quote back to me, from my previous posts, where I said anything
about S9+ signals. Yes, if you're going to run a pileup of 50,000+
hams for 2 weeks, you should consider being LOUD if at all possible.

I don't think anyone planning a dx-ped considers having a crappy signal
instead, so this is a moot point.

by using the most sophisticated antenna systems and amps available.

Heck, a couple of old 4 element mono-banders or tribanders, verticals
with good radials, a nice-sized generator and 1000 or 1500 watts (or
whatever the legal limit is of the entity in question) shouldn't be
too hard to accomplish if it's a serious operation.

What's a serious operation and why is it necessary for dx-peds to be
serious? Remember again that this is not a business...

That your perusing the DX Cluster and subsequent calling of the DX-ped,
whether successful or not, counts as "investing substantial time and
effort" and that anyone should care about that.

Whether you care about my success is irrelevant. That I have invested
several hours over several days in finding them (whether by tuning or
cluster - yes, I use the cluster because it's a good tool in my DX
toolbox) IS an investment in time and energy, and if they do their
part, I *should* have a fair crack at getting a New One or a couple of
New Bands out of their operation.

Show me where in the Constitution, the Bill of Rights or the US Legal
system is anyone guaranteed a QSO with a dx-ped. Alternatively, present
a valid case for the compensation that a dx-ped should be legally
obligated to, should they fail to QSO the plaintiffs who invested their
time and energy in this endeavor. Can you hear yourself?

If they do a good job and I just can't crack their pileups or I just
can't hear them, then fine--that's life. Big Deal. I couldn't hear or
work Cocos-Keeling or Christmas Island last year, neither can I hear
the V8 on now. I've seen many, many reports at the time that the VK9
operations were very well done, that many in NA got them, etc. I
didn't moan and whine that I couldn't get through because the
limitation was on my end -- either propagation between our terminals
was bad or because my equipment wasn't sufficient to hear them.
Neither situation is the fault of the operation. No poor planning, no
inexperienced operators, no pileup control issues, etc.

And if you are ready to forgive the condx, why is the "poor planning" or
"poor operating" such a serious breach of conduct? What makes you think
anyone owes you a QSO?

That anyone should give a rat's ass about anyone else's frustrations
about not being able to take a "crack" at the dx-ped.

There's the rub. That's the attitude that I find unfortunate, and one
you will never see me take towards anything. I enjoy seeing and
hearing and experiencing things that are done well, both inside and
outside of amateur radio. I like people who "do their best," be it
mounting a DXpedition, playing football or fixing toasters for a
living. Do your best at everything you do and you'll make as many
people happy as possible. The more corners you cut, the lesser will be
the enjoyment of your audience, be it a DXpedition who only gets a
marginal result, a 10th place football team or a toaster that goes
phhhhhpt after 10 minutes' operation.

You realize, of course, that you're describing the paradox of
perfection: the more perfect things are, the more banal they become.

It's because I have a great love for amateur radio that I make these
points here in this worldwide forum. I hope, sincerely hope, that
somebody who may be planning a DXpedition to a rare entity will take
heed of these cautions and maybe allow me -- and the hundreds of
thousands of others like me, to gain one more notch on our DX belts.
If they put up a good operation and everybody but me gets them, fine.
C'est la vie, c'est la guerre. If they do it crappily and I get
through but most others don't, it still won't be a good operation.

And so it won't. Nothing is perfect in this world, so why should the
dx-peds be? I, for example, believe that all people should respect each
others' rights without exceptions, but I won't act surprised and
slighted when I encounter racist bigots and religious lunatics - I'll
try to reason with them or cross to the other side of the street.

There are two phenomena that drastically changed dxing for the worse.
One is the worst thing that ever happened to ham radio, the DX Cluster
which just about killed off the art of chasing dx and turned it into a
McDX Happy Meal where any idiot with basic reading skills is able to
join the bloody fray at the touch of a button. The other is the
inevitable robot style "you're 59, QRZ?" type of operation that has
become the norm nowadays (spot me on the Cluster, gov'ner, 59, eh, nudge
nudge, wink wink, say no more, say no more?) due to the realization that
money can be made on thousands of QSLs - it's the economy, stupid.


I can't disagree with either of these, but no amount of kvetching will
ever put these genies back in their respective bottles. Your earlier
thoughts display to me a belief in what I call neoDarwinism on the
bands - survival of the fittest. Well, these aspects of the DX art are
Darwinism in the truest forms--the need to adapt. given this is the
current accepted operating practice, do what's necessary to make a QSO
within those accepted parameters.

If that's the case, then apply the principle to your station and evolve
some bad ass antennas and you'll work whoever you please. It's simple
and it falls within your own principle of the quest for perfection with
which I agree to a point.

So now that dxing has been dumbed down, you're arguing for the game to
be watered down even further by insisting on nothing but English
speaking operators with years of dxing experience and operating skills
and with unlimited resources, so that a given dx-ped can be worked at
will by everyone on every band, in every mode with nothing less than an
S9+ signal???

See my above points and don't take things to extreme. Or maybe that's
just your nature. I don't want to be handed anything, ever. I *DO*
want a fair chance with a deck that's not stacked, either for or
against me. I would venture most hams with average stations would be
grateful for the same chance.

You may feel differently if you're sitting in your shack looking at
your #1 Honor Roll plaque, or sitting behind the key or mic of a
mountain-top station with stacked yagis and legal-limit power.

Hardly. Right now I work from a condo with a 10m loop ten feet above the
ground. So far I worked all the major dx-peds within the 8000 miles
radius; the rest I couldn't hear. However, if all the stars align well,
I'll have my 200 footer next year.

73 ... WA7AA


You want fries with that?

Only if they're Québec "Patate Frites," thank you.

Well, they sure don't seem to be freedom fries anymore, after we all
discovered that politicians lie for a living. Who knew?




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