wrote in message
oups.com...
Yuri Blanarovich wrote:
Your own words:
To which W8JI replied:
"The idea current is high in only the start of a coil is not correct.
Model an antenna with EZnec, and look at the load. Model a coil in any
software, and look at current. Read any textbook, even beginner's
textbooks,
and see what they say. Measure a real antenna yourself!
Where is the entire context of that comment Yuri? You (and Cecil) have
the habit of extracting things from context of a larger statement and
exaggerating or putting a creative spin on what others say.
If you were saying the current is high only in the first few turns of a
coil that is not in a high order self-resonance, that is incorrect.
Now you are putting words in my mouth. The question and argument WAS and IS
about the current being (almost) equal (you claimed), or DIFFERENT (my et
other's claim) at the ENDS of the loading coil. You stated "ALWAYS EQUAL"
(Kirchoff, bla, bla...).
As illustration and description of the effect I observed on the Hustler
resonator was, that the heat developed from the bottom few turns. Like I am
so stupid to claim that there is high current only in your few turns?
Common' give me a break and fes up!! This is getting comical and pathetic.
..
Anyone can look up the original posting about the development of the "story"
at
http://www.k3bu.us/loadingcoils.htm
The whole dispute is summarized in Fig. 3 there, where it properly shows the
shaded area representing reality - current and area at the whip after the
loading coil vs. solid line representing misconception. (See degrees used
there?) Anyone, even Richard can see that graphic representation of white
area between the shaded area and triangular curve at the right, to see the
the difference in efficiency ignored by the "same current" crowd - the white
triangle is what you are missing!
If you don't get it by now, then you have serious problem.
Why don't you "gurus" repeat measurements, model it PROPERLY as solenoid or
loading stub (or look at Cecil's examples) within the quarter wave resonant
loaded antenna and tell me where and what IS WRONG on my web page. Step by
step and arguments please.
I am getting tired of this mental masturbation why it CAN'T BE when it IS.
I tought that by now "same currentniks" would get it, but looks like too
much resistance to admit being wrong. Well, looks like really need for
comprehensive article to explain it, describe the experiments that anyone
can replicate and set the record straight. If you choose not to believe it,
that is your choice and you can live with it, who cares, really. Except that
some people parade as experts, gurus, engineers, when they are not. They
have odacity to attack others about misinformation, when they have same on
their web pages.
The even more sad thing is that apparently you influenced ON4UN to take the
right information out of his latest edition of Low Band DXing book and
replaced with your misinformation. It is all there in black and white, can't
deny it, besides claiming being or having "JI Engineering" company, which
you have no right to use that name or description, you ain't no engineer
with degree.
One last question Tom: How many electrical degrees has 60 ft tall tower (10"
face) with circular (or hex, or whatever you choose) top hat of 20 ft
diameter at 1.8 MHz?
Can you answer Cecil's questions?
Obviously NOT without admitting that you were and are wrong. No more
"proofs" needed like potshots at Cecil's ex wife.
I get better response from a brick wall when I hit it with hammer.
I really have no more to say, the rest will be in the comprehensive article
published for anyone to get the picture and decide for themseleves if this
is important or valuable for them, or not. (I promise, I am peeved now :-)
73 Yuri Blanarovich,
www.K3BU.us
Rest is crap, twist and dance around the argument
With couple more comments that I could not resist. :-)
If you were saying the current is high in only the first few turns your
statement was incorrect.
Any dummy would know that it would be DISTRIBUTED along the coil, not in few
turns that you picked or shorted out! Argument was ACROSS the coil, or at
IT's ends. SAME (you) vs. DIFFERENT (me)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Capish?
If you were saying it had something to do with a cosign shape, your
statement was not correct.
Saying the current is NOT high in only the first few turns in a loading
coil in a working system is NOT the same as saying the current does not
vary or cannot vary.
You are like to call names, insult people, and argue rather than take the
time to learn basic electronics. This is in any book, including the ARRL
Handbook. If you look at HOW an inductor works, the current flowing in
one
terminal ALWAYS equals the current flowing out the other terminal.
That's true. The only thing that causes any differential is when the
inductor has significant stray C to the outside world compared to the
"through" impedance. Current can't just vanish.
ITS THE STANDING WAVE CURRENT measurable with RF ammeters or current probes.
How come it "vanishes" at the tip of quarter wave vertical, HUH???? Or you
deny that too????
I think that was explained at the same time. As I recall the
conversation, you were claiming current followed the same taper as the
antenna area it replaced and claiming only the first few turns had high
current. You claimed coil Q didn't matter because most of the current
was high only in a few turns.
CRAP! Make up some stories.
I was trying to point out that idea, that the Q does not matter and the
current is high only in the first few turns, is not correct by giving
examples where we cannot measure the change with thermal couple meters.
and.....
Measuring the current into and out of the loading coil with a small
thermocouple RF meter, I detect no difference This is in close agreement
with the model. " "
Measurements are at:
http://www.w8ji.com/mobile_antenna_c...ts_at_w8ji.htm
You still don't know what are we talking about?
Cecil is playing? Can you answer questions that he posted and I posted?
I've tried to answer every question Yuri, as have others. Does this
help clear up what I was trying to say?
WHERE?
As I recall you were claiming Q did not matter because current was high
only in the first few turns of a loading coil.
Yea, riiiiight, I am so stuuuupid!
I pointed out Q does not matter as people expect for a different
reason. The real reason Q does not have the large effect on FS is
ground losses in the system swamp out the effects of coil ESR.
You said current difference was directly related to antenna area the
loading coil replaced, that the loading coil had to have the same
current slope as the area of antenna it replaced. If it replaced 80
degrees of antenna, it had to have the same current differential as
that 80 degrees of antenna. Is that correct, or did I misunderstand
you?
I was giving counter-points to that claim.
For example I posted this:
http://www.w8ji.com/agreeing_measurements.htm
Do you disagee with anything I say or Roy said when it is in context of
the overall discussion??
YOU and Roy disagree with REALITY!!!!!!!!!!!!
73 Tom