Cecil Moore wrote:
Gene Fuller wrote:

I thought you denounced and denied this "concept" earlier today.


Guess you misunderstood. A coil can replace 30 degrees of
an antenna but it won't use the same amount of wire as
30 degrees of wire. What I said is that an inductor is
more efficient than linear loading.

Cecil,

I am feeling dizzy. I am quite comfortable with my understanding of the
entire problem, but I am seriously confused about your position. Nobody
has ever talked about efficiency or the length of wire needed. The issue
has always been replacing "degrees of antenna". I have captured a few
excerpts from April 7.

73,
Gene
W4SZ


Excerpt follow:

9:03 am -- From Cecil

K7ITM wrote:

Another 'speriment occured to me, for those who think the coil current
MUST be different at the two ends by the amount corresponding to the
antenna section it replaces:


To the best of my knowledge, nobody believes that. The coil
is much more efficient at the loading function than is the
straight wire from which it is made. That's why inductive
loading is more efficient than fractal antennas or other
types of linear loading.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


9:24 am -- From Yuri

[excerpt]

Now you move that coil say half way up the must, to higher impedance
point at the antenna, and that coil now, in order to maintain the
"match" has to have higher impedance, more turns and will exhibit MORE
current drop across it, while replacing THE SAME NUMBER OF "missing"
DEGREES AT THE RADIATOR.
Assuming that our goal is to stay with the same physical length of the
whip (which we do) and maintaining 90 degrees of resonant radiator. So
the radiator stays 50 degrees ()+50, 10+40, 20+30, 30+20, 40 + 10) long
and coil replaces the same "missing" 40 degrees.

[emphasis was in the original message]


9:44 am -- From Cecil

Roy Lewallen wrote:

Of course loading coils can be expressed in electrical degrees. But
extrapolating this to mean that a loading coil has the same properties
as an antenna with the same number of "degrees" has no justification.

I haven't heard anybody make that assertion in years. Coils
occupy whatever number of degrees that they occupy.


8:49 pm -- From Cecil

[excerpt]

Example: The phase shift from 30% to 60% in the traveling wave
antenna is taken from the tabular data as 54.2-27.6 = 26.6 degrees.

The phase information is in the *phase* in a traveling wave.

For the standing wave current, the situation is completely
different. The phase measured between any two current probes
will always be zero. The phase of a standing wave current is
useless for measuring phase shift. The way to extract the
phase information is to measure the *amplitude* at two points
and then calculate the phase shift by taking the arc-cos of
the normalized amplitude.

Example: The phase shift from 30% to 60% in the standing wave
antenna is arc-cos(0.8843) - arc-cos(0.5840) = 26.5 degrees.

The phase information is in the *amplitude* in a standing wave.

Thus in both antennas, the phase shift in 30 percent of the
wire is about 27 degrees. (90*.3 = 27) If we had a coil installed
in that 30 degrees of the antenna instead of a wire, the same
concepts would apply.