Michael Coslo wrote:
Not that I could fan the flames any more anyhow, but just what was the
original discussion about anyhow?
As I realized what the actual misconception really is, the discussion
shifted from coils to standing waves. Seems to me, W8JI and W7EL do
not understand the difference implied by these two different equations
(assuming |Ifor|=|Iref|).
Ifor = I1*cos(kx+wt) and Iref = I1*cos(kx-wt)
Istnd = I1*cos(kx+wt) + I1*cos(kx-wt) = I2*cos(kx)*cos(wt)
Gene Fuller has kindly explained the difference but W8JI and W7EL
seemed to have ignored his explanation. Gene says there is no
phase information in standing wave current phase and I agree.
As in Cecil says what, and those disagreeing with him say what?
Looking at:
http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/travstnd.GIF
I say the RMS standing wave current's unchanging phase on the right
hand graph, cannot be used to measure phase. W7EL continues to report
those phase measurements as valid indicators of delay through coils
when installed in standing wave environments. I say all the phase
information in the standing wave current is in its magnitude which
is a cosine function as explained in Kraus and Terman. W8JI and W7EL
both dismiss the phase information in the standing wave magnitude
and insteadtrust the standing wave phase to yield valid delay
measurements.
I'm curious how something that doesn't seem that complex can
generate so many weeks of acrimony and vitriol! I don't know the answer
- but then again, I'm not really sure what the question is. But I do
know where to look it up....
Now you know what the argument is about. Seems to me, W8JI, W7EL,
and others possess misconceptions caused by assuming the unproven
presuppositions of their lumped circuit model. They "prove" their
misconceptions by making measurements known to be invalid. I can't
tell if they are aware of what they are doing or not.
If you know where to look for the answer, please tell us. I have
looked and only found a clear explaination in "Optics" by Hecht.
A side argument is whether standing wave current can drop to
zero at a node in an unterminated transmission line. W8JI continues
to assert that current cannot drop without some imagined third path.
--
73, Cecil
http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp