Cecil Moore wrote:
1. You seem ready to admit that there is 10 degrees of delay
through a 10 degree long stinger. Yet, if you measured that
delay using standing wave current phase, you would measure
a zero phase shift through the stinger. Why aren't you arguing
that there is no phase shift in the stinger?

Cecil,

Earlier we both agreed the current we measure with a magnetic probe,
which is the most common and widely accepted measurement device, is the
actual current that causes radiation, heating, and the magnetic
induction field. It is the current that heats the element and moves a
thermocouple meter, it is the current that cause I^2R heating, and the
current that moves past one point in the system if we stopped and
counted charges, or if we calculated current based on drift velocity of
charge carriers.

So what current is it you are measuring? Charges cannot flow two
directions at the same time at the same point in a system. There cannot
be drift velocity in two dorections at the same time.

Are you talking about a pulse of current and the return echo?

2. There is no appreciable standing wave current phase shift from
feedpoint to the tip of the stinger in a 75m mobile bugcatcher
antenna. To be consistent, don't you have to argue that the
75m mobile bugcatcher antenna is zero degrees long?

It is however long it is. If it is 7 feet long it is about ten
electrical degrees long on 75 meters, because every foot is about .7
degrees.

Speaking of what we both believed two years ago:
I'm happy to see you no longer agree with the misplaced notion that
the coil has equal current magnitudes and phases at each end,

Maybe two years ago I knew that and published it, so I am happy you
finally see I did.

puzzled why you resist understanding the low velocity factor
associated with helical loading coils. The velocity factor of 75m
bugcatcher loading coils is typically less than 0.1

......and you know that because?

From the Dr. Corum paper, we have an equation for velocity factor
for coils passing a litmus test. A 75m bugcatcher coil passes that
litmus test with flying colors. The resulting VF is in the ballpark
of 0.04 which is in the ballpark of Reg's VF calculations which is
in the ballpark of Richard Harrison's calculations. Your VF of 1.0
along the length of the coil is the one that is completely out of
the ballpark.

I never said 1.0, as a matter of fact the coil I measured had a vF
(when compared to physical length) of about .5

I measured delay through an approximately 100uH coil at:

http://www.w8ji.com/inductor_current_time_delay.htm

You can see the big change at self-resonance near 16 MHz. 3.8 MHz is
not near 16MHz, so the behavior is quite different at the two
frequencies.

Take your 100uH coil and measure its self-resonant frequency
directly over a large metal ground plane. Keeping everything,
including frequency, the same, cut the coil in half.

Sorry, I won't cut the last few pieces of miniductor I have like that
in half.

So what current are you measuring?

73 Tom