"Dave" wrote Sorry for the top post.

can the premise be restated as follows:

"Could an insulated wire in a lossy conductive medium [AKA ocean water]
near the surface be modeled as a slot antenna in a lossy plane?"

+ + +

and...
if there is such an effect what is the best way to "catch the RF waves"
grazing the shining ocean surface. More like - can it work besides just
being modeled?

I have been using "dog loop" antenna, originally RF dog fence around 3/4
acre lot, which is basically wire loop burried about 1 inch below the
surface. It has about 600 ohms and works like a goofy Beverage, low noise
pickup and still delivering reasonable signal on 80/160. That's why this
bugs me, like using floating antenna?

Just wondering if there is any potential in this or if anything was written
up in the antenna books pro or con.

Yuri, K3BU/mm


Yuri Blanarovich wrote:

Let me change the subject, in order not to interfere with original
thread.

OK, let me try to elaborate based on what I know and have observed.

We know about the effect of distilled water on submerged radiator, it
shrinks the dimensions due to dielectric constant. I am not going to
distill the Barnegat Bay.

We know that salt water or brackish water have high conductivity and act
to radio waves as reflector and we can take the advantage of this
property by using suitable antenna over or next to it.

There is low penetration of such water surface by radio waves, but there
should be some RF currents induced close to the surface of said water,
(da poor conductor).

The question:
is there concentration of induced RF currents near the surface, and if
so, can we tap them by furnishing proper antenna - transducer?
It may be that the whole sandwich of water is just shunted to ground, or
is there enough resistance between the ground and surface to allow enough
of workable current/signal to collect.
The idea is to "gamma match" the giant "water antenna" which is the water
surface, in similar fashion as it is done say with aircraft body surface
and a slot (antenna).

I do not remember this mentioned in the books I have and I wonder if it
is possible to harness the ocean as an antenna. Jus' wanted to make sure
we do not overlook potential "antenna" at our feet.

73 Yuri, K3BU




"Roy Lewallen" wrote in message
...

Yuri Blanarovich wrote:

OK, here is the one for the experienced and theoriticians:

How about antenna made of wires, submerged just below the surface of
water, partially salinated (brakish) or sea water. Would it couple to
this huge "water antenna" (variations of insulated vs. bare elements) or
connect/tap to it?

I don't understand. You're asking about the coupling between a submerged
antenna made of wires and a "water antenna"? What's a "water antenna"?
How close together are the two antennas?

Any submerged antenna would have to be very shallow if it's to receive
signals from above the water -- the attenuation of fields traveling
through salt water is very high (~16 dB/foot at 1.8 MHz). If it's very
deep, it might as well not be there at all.

Roy Lewallen, W7EL