Wayne,

The best study I've seen is in both the ARRL Antenna Handbook and in ON4UN's
Low Band DX'ing Handbook. I think it was a 3 station that came up with a
method (consistent with BL&E) that gave a simple formula for putting down
the optimum number and length of radials, for a given length of radial wire
available. I used that study to originally arrive at 50' long radials at
80m. This gave tip to tip separation of about 3 or 4 feet on 80m, which met
his criteria. The material above specifically answers the question: how do
you get the best bang for the buck for a given amount of available radial
wire.

Read that material..or at least get the formula and apply it to your
available wire...that will get you were most of us are with respect to
optimizing radials.

Now, Reg has come up with his program that flies in the face of these other
studies, indicating one can obtain comparable performance with MUCH shorter
radials (5 metres instead of 16 metres) and that is what started this whole
thread. We await some sort of comfirmation from several sources that Reg's
numbers are correct. If they are, Reg will become famous.

Currently here is how things line up:

1. BL&E doesn't seem to agree with Reg's numbers (on the issue of short
radials)
2. Tom, W8JI's, recollection of his measurement don't either.
3. NEC-4 is in the process of analyzing the short radial comparability claim
as we speak.

The entire issue is: does the current in the radials described above taper
off as quickly as Reg predicts, or not? If it does, the short radials will
be comparable and Reg is right. If it doesn't, Reg needs to fix his program
in that particular section.

We await more data, or someone to extract from BL&E a precise answer to the
actual question: how fast does current fall in a radial as you move away
from the base of a 1/4 wave ground mounted vertical with shallowly buried
radials.

In the mean time, you can get started with the formula I referred to above.
If Reg is right, you used more wire than needed. If not, you have your wire
in place and are ready to go.

....hasan, N0AN
"Wayne" wrote in message
news:L0Nwg.5924$yN3.4270@trnddc04...
These are very good points. I am reading these postings to try to
understand the behavior of actual implementations that lie somewhere
between the extremes you pointed out. In other words, what gets you the
most bang for the buck.... How fast does performance change with
increased radial length and number of radials.