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Old September 24th 06, 08:56 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy
[email protected] N2EY@AOL.COM is offline
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First recorded activity by RadioBanter: Jul 2006
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Default "Usual Liberal Disdain?"

wrote:
From: on Sat, Sep 23 2006 6:57 pm


wrote:
wrote:


Not much is known about Jim, except the usual liberal disdain for the
US military and military members.


"usual liberal disdain"?


Let's see....some well known "liberals"....


There's president Jimmy Carter, who graduated from the US Naval Academy
and served in the Navy on submarines. He also won the Nobel Peace
Prize, for being instrumental in the only long-term peace agreement in
the modern Middle East (the Camp David accords).


I recall no Middle East Peace in modern times.


Nor I. Maybe it was for one weekend or something.


The Camp David Accords, Len.

From 1956 to 1973, there were at least four different wars fought where

Israel was on one side and Egypt on the other. The Camp David Accords,
signed by Egypt and Israel, have brought peace between those two
countries for almost 30 years.

The military draft ended January 1973 under Nixon's watch.


Because Congress refused to renew it, not because of Nixon.

had no worries about being drafted after that.


A draft could always be reinstated.

However, Carter pardoned most Vietnam War draft evaders in
January 1977.


That amnesty/pardon was specific to draft resistance.

By contrast, president Gerald Ford issued a general pardon to Richard
Nixon some years earlier, covering *anything* Nixon had done while in
office.

Way too liberal an act for my taste.


Was it OK for Ford to pardon Nixon? Particularly since Nixon's pardon
was so general and nonspecific?

Or president John F. Kennedy, who served in the Navy in WW2. He was
awarded the Navy and Marine Corps medal for his leadership on the last
patrol of PT 109.


Indeed he was.


JFK approved the Bay of Pigs fiasco in Cuba.


And then backed out. Bad decision.

Soon after the Bay of Pigs, NASA put the first American into space, and
JFK made his 'go to the moon' speech. Some people think one of the
reasons JFK did that was to move attention away from that mess.

JFK also brought us perilously close to World War III in
the Cuban Missle crisis. The first casualty was a U-2
pilot surnamed Anderson.


Was that U-2 pilot any relation to you, Len?

Did JFK show "disdain" for the military by the Bay of Pigs or the Cuban
Missile crisis?

How should he have handled the Cuban situation, Len?

George McGovern was in the USAAF (15th Air Force) in WW2, flying 35
missions in B-24 bombers over North Africa and Italy. He was awarded
the Distinguished Flying Cross.


A little before my time.


However, McGovern didn't get
elected to national office.


The dirty tricks of Nixon's CREEP may have had something to do with
that. The efforts by "the President's men" to cover up some of those
dirty tricks eventually brought about the downfall of Nixon's
presidency. Nixon resigned rather than be impeached, because the
evidence against him was so strong that even his own party could not
support him.

McGovern ran on a platform that included a strong anti-Vietnam-war
plank. Was that showing "disdain" for the military?

Vice president Al Gore enlisted in the Army and served in Vietnam
during that conflict, refusing a place in the Tennessee National Guard.


Odd. Do most people get to "refuse a place" in their state's National
Guard?

I don't recall having that "opportunity." Ditto my brother.


It must be a Tennessee thing.


It was a '70s thing.

The Current Occupant of the White House served in the National Guard.

John Kerry served in the US Navy, volunteering for Vietnam duty. He was
awarded three Purple Heart medals, a Silver Star and a Bronze Star.
After his discharge from the military, he opposed the Vietnam War,
having actually been there.


Now there's a perfect example of disdain for his fellow military
members.


How?

It probably cost him the presidential election. Kerry once
tossed his medals. Maybe Robesin caught one? :-)


Is it wrong for a person to oppose a war?

President Franklin Delano Roosevelt never served in any military,


Correct. He had polio and was unfit for military service.


He was healthy as a young man, however.

though he was appointed Assistant Secretary of the Navy.


Our military is civilian led. Sometimes led well, sometimes not.


Agreed.


There is no requirement that any government official actually serve in
the military, yet they decide what wars will be fought.

Is it disdain for the military to say that sometimes their decisions
aren't the best?

He led the USA
out of the Depression and through almost all of WW2.


He had a priori knowledge of Pearl Harbor and did nothing.


Not quite. US cryptanalysts had decoded the infamous
Japanese multi-part telegram before the Japanese embassy
in DC did. It just didn't have any mention of the attack
point.


Where is this verified?

If true, when was the decoded, translated message available to FDR?
Weeks before the attack? Days? Hours?

What did the telegram say, exactly?

That just
might be considered disdain for the military and military members.


Neither. The US cryptanalysts were a small group of USA
and USN personnel on active duty, plus the genius of a
civilian, William Friedman, the Army's chief cryptanalyst.


Located where?

His "New Deal" was considered rather liberal in its time....


Extremely liberal. It was his handling of the Bonus Marchers, veterans
of WW 1, that needed their promised pensions that might also be
considered disdain for the military and military members.


That was a not-good situation.


Which situation?

The violent confrontation between the Bonus Marchers and federal troops
occurred in the summer of 1932 - when Herbert Hoover was president.

FDR was not elected until November of 1932, and did not take office
until 1933.

Who exhibited greater disdain for those veterans - Hoover or FDR?

The FCC was created under FDR's term. The jury might still
be out on that one. :-)


The FCC was the successor to the FRC. Both were created to deal with
the mess of regulation - or misregulation - of the 1920s and earlier.

"usual liberal disdain"?


Yup.


Nope.

A plain and simple fact: NO USA President NOR president
wanna-be since Herbert Hoover has been granted an amateur
radio license.


Incorrect.

Herbert Hoover was not a radio amateur. His son was.

Barry Goldwater, Republican presidential candidate in 1964, was an
active radio amateur. (K7UGA)

There are still millions of Americans
who are anti-war, anti-military NOW.


Anti-war and anti-military are two different things.

Is it always wrong to oppose a war, regardless of the circumstances?

Are all wars "right" if the administration in charge at the time says
so?

The news services just
haven't featured them much since 11 Sep 01. They are still
there, can be found.


What does freedom really mean if dissent is not allowed?

but he thinks he "serves his country"
by having a hobby license in an amateur radio service.


Well, you can't be talking about me, Len. Because I've never written
anything remotely like that.

It's not about me.

What I *have* written is that the Amateur Radio Service performs
service to the country.

What I *have* asked is whether the only way someone can serve their
country is by uniformed military service, or if someone can serve in
other ways.

Those are valid questions. Try answering them, rather than making up
quotes.

So
do some others who can't think for themselves but require
the League to tell them what to think.


Which "League". Len? The League of Women Voters? The Union League?