RadioBanter - View Single Post - Is the code requirement really keeping good people out of ham radio?

Dave Heil · October 14th 06, 04:30 PM posted to rec.radio.amateur.policy

wrote:
wrote:
From: on Wed, Oct 11 2006 3:38 am
Opus- wrote:
On 5 Oct 2006 17:05:58 -0700, spake thusly:
Opus- wrote:
On 5 Oct 2006 04:26:28 -0700, spake thusly:
Opus- wrote:

But when you really listen to the way most people speak, the speed is
limited by many things. There's a lot of redundancy in the way many
people speak, pauses, repeats, "ums" and "ahs', and little phrases
tossed in while the person thinks of what to say next. Meanwhile, the
skilled Morse Code operator is using abbreviations and other shortcuts
that effectively increase the speed way beyond the raw wpm.
A comparison between a poor speaker and a skilled
radiotelegrapher is worthy HOW? To shine up the
"skilled radiotelegrapher?" [of course...]

Listen to the way *most people* speak, Len. There's a lot of redundancy
in the way many
people speak, pauses, repeats, "ums" and "ahs', and little phrases
tossed in while the person thinks of what to say next.

Not mentioned are the fact that voice mode radio ops often do repeats
and phonetic spellings. "My name is Mike--Mike(??????) India Kilo
Echo--Mike."

Compare a good speaker and a poor, unskilled radio-
telegrapher's sending and speech becomes way, way
faster.

So? Most people don't speak like they're reading a script.

Or consider this analogy: It's one thing to drive a car with all the
modern conveniences - power steering, automatic transmission, power
brakes, cruise control, climate control, etc., and doing it on a smooth
straight highway. It's a different experience to drive a car without
all those things, on a winding country road where the driver's skill
makes a big difference.
You have much experience on "winding country roads?" :-)

Yes. Do you?

Note that Len seems to think he is making a joke.

[of course you do, you are an amateur extra morseman...]

Lots of people who aren't radio amateurs, drive on winding country roads.

Are you advocating "no-frills" personal vehicles? Why?

Why not?

Why not indeed?

I learned to drive in a 1939 Ford, NO automatic trans-
mission, NO power steering, NO power brakes, No cruise
control, NO "climate control" other than the standard
heater.

Sounds like the car I learned to drive in.

It sounds better than my first car, though mine had advanced climate
control--a dashboard vent, crank windows and vent windows.

Training ground was an abandoned army camp, one
which DID have a few "winding (dirt) roads." If you
think for one minute that I would give up a nice,
comfortable, well-equipped 2005 Chevy Malibu MAXX just
to "rough it" for SOMEONE ELSE'S IDEA of what constitutes
"good driving," you've got your head up your ass.

It's not about *you*, Len.

To Len, it is always about Len.

Having earned my Army driving license, I will personally
challenge you to a Jeep gymkhana (Jeep circa 1940s-1960s)
at everything from "smooth straight highways" through
"winding country roads" on to OFF-ROAD ANYTHING.

Why would you give up a nice, comfortable, well-equipped 2005 Chevy
Malibu MAXX just
to "rough it", Len?

It doesn't matter, Jim. Len has thrown the gauntlet. He's out for blood.

I will WIN.

Maybe. Maybe not. You don't really know, you're just bragging because
you know it won't happen.

You saw through the bluster?

Been there, did that, got T-shirts, etc.

That doesn't mean you would win.

It just means that Len has some really old T-shirts.

That standard issue Jeep had NO amenities except for the
post-1950 winch and cable over the front bumper. "Climate
control" was whatever the climate was outside. The "power
transmission" was a couple gear shifts operated by arm
strength and experienced clutch operation. Ptui.

What's your point - that you spit at Jeeps?

He thought they were technologically challenged then and he still thinks so?

HOW MANY personal vehicles have YOU DESIGNED and BUILT?
Include auto kits if you need to.

What does it matter? I could tell you about the time I took two junker
cars and made one good one out of them, but you'd find fault with that,
somehow.

But that doesn't answer the question "HOW MANY".

HOW MANY thousands of miles have YOU driven?

Gosh, Len, I don't really know. Probably more than you, though.

I think I've driven more miles in the past six years than Len has logged
over the past twenty. Is there a prize for miles driven?

Over "winding
country roads?"

Enough.

Three quarters of mine have been over winding and hilly country roads.
Then again, I live in the country. Go figure. What's the prize?

[I don't think so unless you count the
old driveway to the Doylestown Barn Cinema...] I've driven
the VERY winding country road (rough surface) to a Wyoming
working ranch (cattle brand registered in Wyoming is "B-1
Bomber") from/to highway.

What does that have to do with anything, Len?

That was a detour on a winding country road.

Perhaps the typical ages of people who prefer code could be a factor.
It does tend to be considerably older people who prefer code.
I disagree - for two reasons!

First I have found amateurs of all ages who are interested in Morse
Code.
If all you have is a hammer, naturally everything looks
like a nail to you...

I've got a lot more tools than just a hammer. I know how to use them,
too.

If you're a nail, everything headed your way appears to be a hammer.

I have found that young people are interested *if* Morse Code is
presented correctly.

Sado-masochism is still prevalent in the human condition.

And yet you claim you have no problem with people using Morse Code....

But we knew from his past posts, that simply isn't true.

Some say that, in the modern world, young people who grew up with cell
phones and the internet aren't going to sit still for something like
Morse Code - or amateur radio. And many won't.

Unquantified numbers. You are waffling on your emotional
reasons.

"Amateur" is derived from the Latin word for "love". Means to do
something for the love of the thing alone. Emotional reasons, IOW.

Len is primarily motivated by those things which generate money.

The fact is that there are plenty of young people who like Morse Code
and learn it readily. I think that's one reason you want an age limit
for an amateur radio license - so those code-skilled young folks can't
get a license until they're 14.

However, the very fact that Morse Code is unusual is a big attraction
to some of them - *because* it's so different and unusual. They've seen
voice comms - they all have cellphones! Typing on a keyboard and
reading a screen is something they've seen since they were babies.

One in three Americans has a cell phone. Census Bureau said
so in a public statement in 2004.

So what?

The "so" is that two out of three American *don't* have a cellular phone.

When I was a teenager, practically everyone had a telephone. Why should
anyone have a ham rig at home when they can just talk on the telephone?

My dad discouraged me from talking on the phone when I was a teen. He
didn't do that with amateur radio unless I was trying to operate on 15m
and there was a football game on TV.

Back in the late 1940s - a time well before cell phones, personal
computers, with (mostly) only sound broadcasting - there was NO
great "novelty" or "interest" in morse code communications.

Sure there was. Ham radio was growing by leaps and bounds then. You
were not part of it.

Len must have missed a couple of decades.

Been
there, seen that, see no difference now.

IOW, nobody should do what *you* don't enjoy.

I'm more concerned that Len thinks that because he is ignorant of the
historical facts of amateur radio in the late 1940's, everyone is ignorant.

But
Morse Code is completely different. That's what draws many young people
- just look at the acceptance of the Harry Potter books.
So, write the author of the "Harry Potter" series and have
her (J. K. Rowling) "introduce" morse code as "magic." :-)

BWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

* M A G I C M O R S E *

BWAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAAHAA
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

??

It's a California thing.

But some things can be preserved - values, skills, culture. Even if the
people and places change.

Preservation of the Past is the job of MUSEUMS.

Preservation of values, skills and culture is everyone's job.

Len doesn't seem to think that it is his job.

Why do you insist on keeping a "living museum" in amateur
radio through federal license testing for morse code in
only AMATEUR radio?

It's not a living museum.

Far from it. Radio amateurs use many modes daily. CW is one of 'em.

YOU had to test for it so everyone else has to...

Nope. Morse Code should be a license requirement because amateurs use
it. The skill is part of being a qualified radio amateur. Simple as
that.

There are thousands and thousands of morse QSOs taking place on the ham
bands daily.

Fraternal order HAZING having NO tangible value
except to amuse those ALREADY tested for code.

It's not about hazing, Len. It's about being qualified. You're not
qualified.

There's been enough false material penned here about hazing, hoops,
rituals and the like to last a lifetime.

Len may use all the cellular phones, cordless phones, Family Radio
Service HT's and Citizen's Band transceivers he likes. He isn't a radio
amateur and likely will never become a radio amateur. All of his talk
has been bluster and boast.

Dave K8MN