On Apr 11, 12:57 am, Dave Heil wrote:
AF6AY wrote:
From: on 10 Apr 2007 03:56:54 -0700

Subject: What Revolution?

On Apr 9, 1:05 pm, Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 9, 2:05 am, Dave Heil wrote:
wrote:
On Apr 7, 5:31 pm, wrote:
On Apr 3, 1:34?pm, "AF6AY" wrote:
On Mar 29, 6:24?pm, Dave Heil wrote a typical
A number of
individuals here have pointed out that an amateur radio license is only
the beginning.
If the exam is only the beginning, then multiple exams and multiple
license classes are superfluous. A number of individuals here have
pointed that out.

True. One ham = one license should be good enough for a hobby
activity.

I've told you a number of times that the FCC nowhere uses the word
"hobby" in defining or describing amateur radio.

The BMV doesn't list hobby driving in it's regulations, yet some
people collect and drive cars for a hobby. But the amateur radio
SERVICE is serious business - 13 second QSOs and all!

But...a long time ago the "amateur community" decided it wanted
(terribly) the RANK-STATUS-PRIVILEGES of multiple classes,
especially the morsemen holding on (with dear life) to their
beloved morse code. The "upper" classes could then look down
(and put down) the "lower" classes in great personal glee.

That seems to be your version of events and it seems that, despite of
reality, you're sticking to it.

There are several elements of truth in there. Can you find them?

You've always had a perceptible inferiority complex.

You've always had a smug complex.

Now IN the electronics industry (where the rest of the radio
world's equipment - and some amateur gear - is designed and
made), the vast majority of those involved do NOT have amateur
radio licenses! Those involved in everyday work with radio
and electronics found it a fascinating, challenging activity
all by itself. No "ham ticket" was necessary...indeed was a
superfluous thing since amateur radio licenses are NOT needed
for the rest of the radio world.

If someone wanted to participate in amateur radio, passing an amateur
radio license exam was the only way to gain entry. That is still true
today.

Heil got one right.

Passing the exams
allowed me to bypass tech school.
So you really did bypass military comms training? Exactly how did I
"misquote" you?
You misquoted me when you wrote "according to Heil" and follow it with
something I've not stated.
Yet it is what you did.

WE just don't know for sure what Heil actually did unless he
states his USAF MOS, what he worked with "in a country at war."

The Air Force does not use that term, Leonard.

The US Army does. It is "Military Occupational Specialty," the
equivalent of the Air Force Specialty Code (AFSC).

If you're going to play
Secret Squirrel, at least bone up on the background info.

Nobody minds when Robesin gets it "half-right" about his own service
or MARS, so why the prob with Len's mostly accurate statement?

You're right, Brian. Jim has forty years of amateur radio experience.
Len has a few weeks at best.
I'm sure he'll catsup quick.
He'll have forty years experience in forty years.
Poor Dave has to maintain that edge of superiority.
He has a terrible personal NEED for that "superiority."

Where did you see me writing of myself? You have a terrible personal
case of inferiority.

And you have a terrible impersonal case.

He MUST be above all others.

JIM has forty years more experience that you. You MUST have seen that.

If you were to add up all of your 13 second QSOs, how many years of
experience would that be?

The Latin phrase "Primus inter pares"
suits him ("first among equals"), a Latin oxymoron of all things.

You aren't Jim's equal in amateur radio or civility. You're a beginner
in one and you have yet to practice the other.

It looks like you have an opinion. How nice.

Do you think you know more about amateur radio than someone who has
been an active radio amateur for several decades?
What's to know? Please start a list.
You've held a license for at least a couple of decades. Shouldn't you
have an inkling by now?
You're 59...
That's the sum total of knowledge you've acquired since you obtained an
amateur radio license?
What? You don't like standardized replies that allow for 13 second
QSOs?
Heil wants His NOW. Instant gratification of his "superiority."

*Snicker* Yeah, I've gained instant superiority after only forty-three
years in the game. Stop, Len! You're cracking me up!

Right. Are you running for ARRL office as well? Sure sounds like it.
What do you mean "as well?" Do you know someone who is running for an
ARRL elected position?
You've announced a run for the Roanoke Division Directorship.
No, Brian, I have not.
Perhaps it was only wishful typing when you posted your run?

Maybe Heil CHANGED HIS MIND? People are allowed to do that,
change their mind, that is...

To CHANGE MY MIND, I'd had to have made the statement that
hot-ham-and-cheese attributed to me. His big dilemma is that I didn't
make such a statement. Oh deary me. What will he do now?

I don't believe you, so I'm sticking by MY statement even if you can't
stick by yours.

Oh! But NOT in amateur radio newsgroups! No, NEVER, according
to Miccolis! Once one says something, regardless of how long
ago, to Miccolis that is a LIFE GOAL Never To Be Changed!

You've been caught with your brogans in your yap on a number of
occasions, "Anderson". A smarter being probably wouldn't bring further
attention to himself by braying about it.

So how's your run for the Roanoke Division Directorship going?

Len is a guy who holds an Extra license. What class of license do you
hold? ...does Jim hold?
Oh, Len holds a license of the same class.
Indeed. Yet the FCC has no requirement for experience. Len has
gained radio experience via a lifetime of operating in other
services. Weren't you the one who said that amateur experience
allowed you to bypass military comms school?

Brian, it only works ONE WAY, Heil's Way.

Sort of like "Heil's Way or the highway." :-)

The Air Force technical schools award one the "3" skill level, an
apprentice level. The Bypassed Specialist is also awarded that same
apprentice level. Further on-the-job training along with bookwork are
the way to the journeyman or "5" level. I completed the same OJT and
study course as every other "5" level candidate. It wasn't my way or
the highway, but the Air Force way.

Thank goodness it wasn't the amateur way...

He's been a radio amateur
for several weeks. He's green.
NO, NO, NO...FACTUAL ERROR BY Heil. I am not green. As a
caucasoid
type human racial type I am various shades of PINK commonly
referred
to as "flesh color."

As a "boot" is to the military, you are to amateur radio. You're
green--a beginner.

Will the hazing ever stop?

Despite the tenor of some of his posts,
he's a novice in amateur radio. He's just begun.
There is NO "novice" class for new US amateur radio license
class grants. That ended almost seven years ago.

Sorry, Len. There was a Novice Class, but no novice class.
I wrote that you're a novice in amateur radio. That is the case.
You're a neophyte, a beginner.

Hazing...

Neither is there any AGE discrimination in FCC regulations,
age low or high. It was perfectly permissible by law to take
and pass ALL test elements in one test session...which is what
I did on 25 Feb 07. The ARRL VEC accepted that, the FCC
accepted that. Heil and Miccolis still can't "accept" that.

I'll let Jim speak for himself on this issue. I fully accept that
you've passed requisite exams currently in place for the Amateur Extra.
You've been issued a license. I couldn't find anything above where I
commented on your age. You now have an amateur radio license. Use it
and gain some experience in amateur radio.

The FCC does not require one to use their license. And forty years
later one would have forty years of "experience."

Your continued hazing is noted.

I BEGAN in big-time radio...

snip of irrelevant reruns

Heil and Miccolis really OVERWORK their look-down-their-noses
attitude of "beginners."

I congratulate you on your brand new amateur radio license. Keep your
ears and eyes open and you may learn a great deal.

You're 59.

When someone proves that amateur radios
work with "different" laws of physics than all other radios,
I might consider myself as a "beginner." Until then, the REAL
difference between amateur radio and the rest of radio is just
some man-made adminstrative details...and from the ham bigots
busy with self-righteous, I-am-so-important-because-I-know-code
sneering and insulting of new licensees.

That attitude won't help you in gaining experience in amateur radio.
Amateur radio is not solely concerned with the physics of radio. The
fact is that you are a beginner in amateur radio. You have much to
learn. You aren't an instant expert, Len.

Dave K8MN

Nor are you an expert, even after 40+ years.

Really, what were you doing working out of band Frenchmen on 6 meters?