MK,

Hi. Thanks for taking the time to respond.

On Tue, 09 Oct 2007 03:06:18 -0700, wrote:
On Oct 8, 9:16 pm, Frnak McKenney
wrote:

Is it possible that I'm picking up a non-WWV dignal so strong that
it's masking WWV? I tried tuning around 10MHz with a shortwave
radio; it didn't find WWV -- not a particularly hopeful sign -- but
it did pick up a station called (IIRC) WWCR. WWCR's 'web site
(www.wwcr.com) lists its transmitter #4 as using 9.985MHz and
9.975MHz between 0900 and 2100 CST.

Sounds like it's being masked by some type of noise,
but this could just be from the signal being very weak.

If you can hear other stations ok, it probably the propagation
more than anything. Being that you can barely hear it on a
regular receiver seems to bear this out.

Sigh. So... there isn't some kind of cubist-wire-sculpture shape I
can bend my antenna into and magically make WWV appear? grin!

Unless a noise is local, and you are trying to null it, I see no
real advantage to using a small loop vs whatever else.

I constrained the problem by insisting on "indoor" and "small".
From your feedback, and my experience, it looks like I won't get
much further unless/until I'm willing to relax one of my
constraints.

I would make sure you don't have any local noise. IE:
powerline noise, etc. If you did, the loop would be a good
antenna to null that noise as long as you can turn it.
But if there is no local noise, and the noise you hear is
atmospheric, then it's not going to matter much what
you use.

I built a long-wire "antenna" last evening and I _thought_ my signal
picked up a bit... for a little while, anyway. I took a 100'
extension cord and unreeled it from the west end of the house to the
east end where the MAC-II is set up. On the floor. (Hardly a
"phased array"grin!, but I wanted to try _something_.)

I put the (plastic) reel with the rest of the cord up about a foot
away from my "loop", and I did seem to get a stronger signal
(translation: on the fade-ins it sounded a bit louder). I could
hear the "notes" fairly well at times and I could _almost_ make out
what was being said in the the voice segment. On the other hand,
this was somewhere around 1800, give or take an hour, and the signal
was fading in and out... it could have simply been due to
atmospheric conditions.

One good thing I learned was that I may have been tuning my antenna
incorrectly. It seems that there is a "roaring" that peaks the
GCW-1001's LED stack, but when I can distinguish the WWV tones and
maximize their loudness through the speaker I'm slightly _below_
that "roaring". In other words, I _have_ been mis-tuning, and
inadvertently helping drown WWV's signal out. Ouch. Wish I had an
accurate 10MHz signal generator; what I have is intended for audio
work and limited to about 1.5MHz.

I've got a hunch that the propagation is just the pits for
you right now.

Well, that's certainly a true description of what I'm experiencing
grin!, but I've had the MAC-II since 2004 and suffered the same
poor lock-in, and a MAC-I (GC-1000) a decade (ack!) behaved
similarly. 'Course, I used its built-in whip (something the MAC-II
lacks); I didn't build _it_ an antenna of its very own. grin!

I wouldn't be surprised if you tried it in a couple of months
and it worked ok.. If you hear it on the regular radio ok,
the clock should too. If you can't hear it on the regular
radio, the clock probably won't either, and there is
probably not much you can do about it.

I was afraid of that. I suppose I could build a battery-powered RF
amplifier and stick it on the antenna, but the trick (stop me if
you've heard this one grin!) is to make just-the-stuff-I-want
louder. Making _everything_ louder doesn't help me.

There should be times that it comes in fairly decent though,
depending on time of day, etc..
I would use what you hear on the regular receiver as to
whether the signal is really there or not.

You're probably right. Means I have to clear off some more lab
bench space next to the MAC-II, and I should probably re-tighten the
dial cord on the Mohican and dust off its tuning capacitor plates.
grin!

This may wind up being a classic example of the "DIY-DYI
Transformation": a "really neat" do-it-yourself idea which started
out simply enough, but which has somehow turned into a
must-complete, spare-no-expenses Do-Yourself-In Project. grin?

Propagation on most of the HF bands has been fairly
flaky the last few months. IE: I got on 40m in the daytime
the last time I was in OK, and it was like I was on 20m..
Band was real stretched out, and pretty long skip zones.
I'd miss the semi locals I'd usually talk to, and end up
hearing stations 1000 miles away instead.

So... if I ran this really long piece of coax out to Oklahoma, then
I could pick up Fort Collins really well via skip? I've got a bunch
of A/V 75ohm stuff, and some old T-Base2 Ethernet cables; that's a
start... (Riiiight! grin!)

I think it's time to step back and think about what I've discovered
and learn a bit more theory; my ARRL Antenna Handbook (1991ed)
arrived in yesterday's mail, so I'll be learning from The Source.
(I sent my brother Bruce an e-mail message a few days back
explaining why antenna length mattered; it made sense at the time,
but I may have to revise it after some more reading.)

And, if I decide I need a radio-based time source before I can get a
good WWV signal, I could always hack a WWVB clock -- as long as it
had a dead LCD panel or something: I have this weird reluctance to
tear apart anything that is still working. grin!

Assuming, of course, that I can pick up WWV_B_ here. grin?

Anyway, thanks for reassuring me that my poor WWV reception really
might not be due to a poor antenna design. If I ever come up with a
Really Good Solution I'll post back here.


Frank
--
Do not follow where the path may lead. Go instead where there is
no path and leave a trail. -- Ralph Waldo Emerson
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney ayut minds pring dawt cahm (y'all)