"Dave" wrote in message
news:3Uwbj.9477$_o6.6702@trndny06...

"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
. net...
Dave wrote:
"Tom Donaly" wrote in message
t...
Dave wrote:
"Yuri Blanarovich" wrote in message
...
the REAL answer is that the 'standing' wave is a creation of
experimenters 100 years ago who didn't have the impedance, current,
and voltage measurement tools we have today, and didn't know of or
understand superposition. 'standing' waves are nothing but a result
of superposition of the forward and reflected waves, they have no
physical significance beyond that. it is worthless to talk about
power or energy in them since they can always be broken down into
the component waves which make more sense to work with.

Dave

Whoa!
No physical significance?
Like there is no frying the Hustler loading coil from the bottom up
(due to standing wave current) or corona flames from the tip (due to
high SW voltage) when applying a bit of "worthless" power?

Yuri

not due to 'standing' waves... that is due to the superposition of the
forward and reflected waves. They are the real waves, the 'standing'
ones are just figments of your imagination.
Superposition doesn't work in the environment Yuri described. You've
been hanging around Cecil too long.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

ARGH! i was too nice saying that the ancient guys that started the name
'standing' waves didn't understand superposition, neither does everyone
in this group! YES, superposition works in this case, why would it not
work???
Evidently, you haven't done enough reading. Yuri is right this time.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Yuri is trying to say that standing waves have real power, they do not. I
have shown that in my last big post on here. The one part he properly
states is that the effects are due to standing wave voltage. The voltage
is indeed real, as i have said. you can measure the 'standing' wave
voltage, that has been known for a long time... but the effects are NOT
due to power in standing waves.

So you are trying to say that there is standing wave voltage but no standing
wave current and therefore no power associated with current???

OK, explain to me where I went wrong.
Back to our standing wave quarter wave coil loaded antenna, aka Hustler 80m
mobile whip.
I understand that it is standing wave resonant antenna, with maximum current
at the base and maximum voltage at the tip, in between sinusoidal
distribution of them. Inserted loading coil exhibits decrease of the current
along the coil, diminishing at the top, even if W8JI et other gurus do not
believe so.
W9UCW measured the current (standing wave) at top of the coil to be about
40 - 60% less than on the bottom.
K3BU found out that when he put 800W into the antenna, the bottom of the
coil started to fry the heatshrink tubing, demonstrating more power to be
dissipated at the bottom of the coil, proportional to the higher current
there, creating more heat and "frying power" (RxI2). This is in perfect
agreement with W9UCW measurements.
So the way I understand it, forward wave is reflected off the tip, reflected
wave on the way back superimposes with forward wave, creates standing wave,
which at any point can be measured and has current and voltage magnitudes
proportional to their position on the radiator.
They seem to be real current and voltage, current heats up resistance,
voltage lights up the neons and power is consumed, portion is radiated. The
larger the current containing portion, the better antenna efficiency.
Where am I wrong?
I have a hard time to swallow statement that there is no power in standing
wave, when I SAW standing wave's current fry my precious coil and tip burned
off with spectacular corona Elmo's fire due to standing wave voltage at the
tip.
Antenna (quarter wave) radiator is a standing wave circuit exhibiting the
above properties, if the formulas say it ain't so......

Merry Christmas to al believers and unbelievers!

Yuri, K3BU