Roy Lewallen wrote:
Roger wrote:
. . .

This does raise the question of the description of the traveling wave
used in an earlier posting.

The example was the open ended 1/2 wavelength transmission line, Zo = 50
ohms, with 1v p-p applied at the source end. The term wt is the phase
reference. At the center of the line, (using the source end as a
reference), you gave vr(t) =-.05*sin(wt-90 deg.) and ir(t) =
0.01*sin(wt-90 deg.)

By using the time (wt-90), I think you mean that the peak occurs 90
degrees behind the leading edge.

The leading edge and peak of what? The function sin(wt -90) looks
exactly like the function sin(wt) except that it's delayed 90 degrees in
phase. So the forward voltage wave is delayed by 90 degrees relative to
the source voltage. This is due to the propagation time down 90
electrical degrees of transmission line.

I think we are in sync here, but something is missing. When I think of
a traveling sine wave, it must have a beginning as a point of beginning
discussion. I pick a point which is the zero voltage point between wave
halves. It follows that the maximum voltage point will be 90 degrees
later. I think you are doing the same thing, but maybe not.

Next I imagine the whole wave moving down the transmission line as an
intact physical object, with the peak always 90 degrees behind the
leading edge. In our example 1/2 wave line, the leading edge would
reach the open end 180 degrees in time after entering the example. We
can see then, that the current peak will be at the center of the
transmission line when the leading edge reaches the end.


This posting was certainly correct if we consider only the first
reflected wave. However, I think we should consider that TWO reflected
waves may exist on the line under final stable conditions. This might
happen because the leading edge of the reflected wave will not reach the
source until the entire second half of the initial exciting wave has
been delivered. Thus we have a full wave delivered to the 1/2
wavelength line before the source ever "knows" that the transmission
line is not infinitely long. We need to consider the entire wave period
from (wt-0) to (wt-360.

If these things occur, then at the center of the line, final stable
vr(t) and ir(t) are composed of two parts, vr(wt-90) and vr(wt-270) and
corresponding ir(wt-90) and ir(wt-270). We should be describing vr(t)
as vrt(t) where vrt is the summed voltage of the two reflected waves.

Sorry, it's much worse than this.

Unless you have a perfect termination at the source or the load, there
will be an *infinite number*, not just one or two, sets of forward and
reflected waves beginning from the time the source is first turned on.
You can try to keep track of them separately if you want, but you'll
have an infinite number to deal with. After the first reflected wave
reaches the source, its reflection becomes a new forward wave and it
adds to the already present forward and reflected waves. The general
approach to dealing with the infinity of following waves is to note that
exactly the same fraction of the new forward wave will be reflected as
of the first forward wave. So the second set of forward and reflected
waves have exactly the same relationship as the first set. This is true
of each set in turn. Superposition holds, so we can sum the forward and
reverse waves into any number of groups we want and solve problems
separately for each group. Commonly, all the forward waves are added
together into a total forward wave, and the reverse waves into a total
reverse wave. These total waves have exactly the same relationship to
each other that the first forward and reflected waves did -- the only
result of all the reflections which followed the first is that the
magnitude and phase of the total forward and total reverse waves are
different from the first pair. But they've been changed by exactly the
same factor.

It's not terribly difficult to do a fundamental analysis of what happens
at each reflection, then sum the infinite series to get the total
forward and total reverse waves. When you do, you'll get the values used
in transmission line equations. I've gone through this exercise a number
of times, and I recommend it to anyone wanting a deeper understanding of
wave phenomena. Again, the results using this analysis method are
identical to a direct steady state solution assuming that all
reflections have already occurred.

The infinite number of waves could, of course, be combined into two or
more sets instead of just one, with analysis done on each. If done
correctly, you should get exactly the same result but with considerably
more work.

I do want to add one caution, however. The analysis of a line from
startup and including all reflections doesn't work well in some
theoretical but physically unrealizable cases. One such case happens to
be the one recently under discussion, where a line has a zero loss
termination at both ends (in that case, a perfect voltage source at one
end and an open circuit at the other. In those situations, infinite
currents or voltages occur during runup, and the re-reflections continue
to occur forever, so convergence is never reached. Other approaches are
more productive to solving that class of theoretical circuits.

Again, we seem to be in complete agreement except for the statement "In
those situations, infinite currents or voltages occur during runup".
For many years I thought that "initial current into a transmission line
at startup" would be very high, limited only by the inductive
characteristics of the line. With this understanding, I thought that
voltage would lead current at runup. It was not until I saw the formula
Zo = 1/cC that I realized that a transmission line presents a true
resistive load at startup. Current and voltage are always in phase at
startup.

If we agree that voltage and current are always in phase in the
traveling wave, then we should find that in our example, the system
comes to complete stability after one whole wave (two half cycles) is
applied to the system.
. . .

which is the total power (rate of energy delivery) contained in the
standing wave at the points 45 degrees each side of center. If we want
to find the total energy contained in the standing wave, we would
integrate over the entire time period of 180 degrees.

So think I.

I haven't gone through your analysis, because it doesn't look like
you're including the infinity of forward and reverse waves into your two.

. . .

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

73, Roger, W7WKB