RadioBanter - View Single Post - Ham Radio Outlet sells the good stuff by the foot ( RG6 vs RG8X)

RHF · January 8th 08, 10:16 AM posted to rec.radio.shortwave

On Jan 7, 11:35*am, RHF wrote:
On Jan 6, 9:17*am, RHF wrote:

On Jan 5, 11:53*pm, RHF wrote:

On Jan 5, 4:25*pm, Carter-k8vt wrote:

RHF wrote:
Undeniable Fact # 1 - The Man Made RFI-EMF Environment
Has Changed Greatly : Increasing one or two Magnitudes from
the 1930s to the 1990s.

Undeniable Fact # 2 - Man's Ability to Accurately Measure the
RFI-EMF Environment and It's Effects Has Changed Greatly :
Increasing at least a Magnitude from the 1930s to the 1990s.

- Undeniable Fact # 3 - According to a direct quote of Doty,
- UN-shielded lead-in wires are susceptible to noise.
- Coaxial cable is SHIELDED. So why does Doty say bury it?

Fact is most Coax Cable does not have a perfect Shield.

- Undeniable Fact # 4 - Even though the RFI environment has
- changed and even though man's ability to measure it has
- changed, burial in a few inches of soil provides no noise
- mitigation.

You provide no Empirical Data to dispute my Anecdotal Observations.

- Undeniable Fact # 5 - Yes, the environment has changed and
- measurement techniques have changed, but that does NOT
- mean the Laws of Physics have changed.

I would have to conclude that 'our' knowledge of the Laws of
Physics has improve from 1930s to 1990s.

- Finally, for the sake of this discussion, assume your neighbor/
- neighborhood is throwing out a lot of RF hash and trash.
- Furthermore, let us assume you've buried your coax in hopes
- of alleviating the problem (even though it won't).
-
- What, pray tell, is to keep this neighborhood RF hash and
- trash from impinging directly on the antenna itself and being
- piped right in to your receiver?

Nothing -but- that's the Antenna itself -and- at least it ain't the
Coax Cable feed-in-line; acting as a Noise Pick-Up Antenna.

- -If you need to avoid the lawn mower, bury by all means.

Good Point.

- -If you need to avoid the wrath of your wife, bury by all means.

She Who Must Be Obeyed - Must Be Happy Too !

- -If you want to bury to mitigate noise, save your time, trouble and
energy.

Alas it is 'my' Time and Money and to 'me' it is Worth-the-Trouble :
To Do It Right !

Oops You Forgot : # 2 - Dang - See # 1 + Safety - It's a Tripping
Hazard.

KEY POINT - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

1 - At the Antenna using a Matching Transformer between the
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable feed-in-line. {The Far-End}

2 - Plus a Ground Rod at this Matching Transformer.

3 - Near the entry to the House using an Isolation Transformer
between the Coax Cable feed-in-line and Coax Cable going
into the House to the RadioShack. {The Near-End}

4 - Plus a Ground Rod at the Isolation Transformer.

5 - Bury the Coax Cable feed-in-line between the Two Ground
Rods and Transformers.

Number "5" is realy only important when you have first
accomplished Numbers 1~4.

Effectively the Outer-Shield of the Coax Cable is :
1-
2-
3-
4-
5-
etc...

Three Rec.Radio.Shortwave Messages to Read -by- John Dotyhttp://groups..google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/1abc6a2bf8acc12d
* SWL Longwire
* Low Noise Antenna Connection
* Grounding Is Key To Good Reception

John Doty will tell you that he did not Invent any of these things
or Uniquely Combine them to Create a New Concept. *He more
or less studied what was out-there and empirically tried things
until he found what seemed to Work : "The Best". *He Wrote about
them; and Help to Popularize them in the 1990s in the Shortwave
Radio Listening (SWL) community. *As far as I know he makes
no claim that any one of these things will work by itself -but- as
a group they do improve things greatly over a simple Classic
Horizontal Bare Wire Antenna with an Insulated Wire feed-in-line
-or- an Improved Horizontal Bare Wire Antenna with a Coax Cable
feed-in-line.

step-by-step - one-step-at-a-time - the endless quest for
better shortwave radio listening (swl) - iane ~ RHF
*.

KEY POINT - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

1 - At the Antenna using a Matching Transformer between the
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable feed-in-line. {The Far-End}

2 - Plus a Ground Rod at this Matching Transformer.

3 - Near the entry to the House using an Isolation Transformer
between the Coax Cable feed-in-line and Coax Cable going
into the House to the RadioShack. {The Near-End}

4 - Plus a Ground Rod at the Isolation Transformer.

5 - Bury the Coax Cable feed-in-line between the Two Ground
Rods and Transformers.

Number "5" is realy only important when you have first
accomplished Numbers 1~4.

Effectively the Outer-Shield of the Coax Cable is/does :

# 1 - Connects both the Antenna Ground and the House's
Feed-in-Line Entry Ground {RadioShack Grounding Point} :
-Thus- "Bonding" these two Grounds.

2-
3-
4-
5-
etc...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

KEY POINT - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

1 - At the Antenna using a Matching Transformer between the
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable feed-in-line. {The Far-End}

2 - Plus a Ground Rod at this Matching Transformer.

3 - Near the entry to the House using an Isolation Transformer
between the Coax Cable feed-in-line and Coax Cable going
into the House to the RadioShack. {The Near-End}

4 - Plus a Ground Rod at the Isolation Transformer.

5 - Bury the Coax Cable feed-in-line between the Two Ground
Rods and Transformers.

Number "5" is realy only important when you have first
accomplished Numbers 1~4.

Effectively the Buried Outer-Shield of the Coax Cable is/does :

# 1 - Connects both the Antenna Ground and the House's
Feed-in-Line Entry Ground {RadioShack Grounding Point} :
-Thus- "Bonding" these two Grounds.http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding...ing-Part-1-of-...

# 2 - Functions as a Ground Radial for the Wire Antenna
Element to 'unify' the "Ground Effect" {Ground Conductivity
Efficiency} between the two Ground Rods.http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# 3 -IF- The Wire Antenna Element is hung in the Air 'over'
this Buried Coax Cable it is in-effect a Counterpoise to the
Wire Antenna Element.http://www.cebik.com/gp/cps.html

READ - WHY - The Far-End-Fed Shortwave Listener's (SWLs)
Inverted "L" Antennahttp://www.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/22cfc6b9cb2447c0http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/message/11698

4-
5-
etc...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

KEY POINT - Burying the Coax Cable is simply one of the many
Synergistic Elements that goes into making a Low Noise
Shortwave Radio Listening (SWL) Antenna -a-la- John Doty

1 - At the Antenna using a Matching Transformer between the
Antenna Element and the Coax Cable feed-in-line. {The Far-End}

2 - Plus a Ground Rod at this Matching Transformer.

3 - Near the entry to the House using an Isolation Transformer
between the Coax Cable feed-in-line and Coax Cable going
into the House to the RadioShack. {The Near-End}

4 - Plus a Ground Rod at the Isolation Transformer.

5 - Bury the Coax Cable feed-in-line between the Two Ground
Rods and Transformers.

Number "5" is realy only important when you have first
accomplished Numbers 1~4.

Effectively the Buried Outer-Shield of the Coax Cable is/does :

# 1 - Connects both the Antenna Ground and the House's
Feed-in-Line Entry Ground {RadioShack Grounding Point} :
-Thus- "Bonding" these two Grounds.
http://www.hamuniverse.com/grounding.html
http://www.mikeholt.com/newsletters....y&letterID=134
http://mikeholt.com/mojonewsarchive/...2~20041005.php

# 2 - Functions as a Ground Radial for the Wire Antenna
Element to 'unify' the "Ground Effect" {Ground Conductivity
Efficiency} between the two Ground Rods.
http://www.sgcworld.com/radialstechnote.html

# 3 -IF- The Wire Antenna Element is hung in the Air 'over'
this Buried Coax Cable it is in-effect a Counterpoise to the
Wire Antenna Element.
http://www.cebik.com/gp/cps.html

READ - WHY - The Far-End-Fed Shortwave Listener's (SWLs)
Inverted "L" Antenna
http://www.google.com/group/rec.radi...cfc6b9cb2447c0
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortw.../message/11698

# 4 - Digging the Trench to Bury the Coax Cable feed-in-line
Opens-Up-the-Ground ! -meaning- You now have a Trench in
the Ground to place 'things' in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_conductivity
* While the Braided Outer Shield of the Coax Cable can 'connect'
the two Ground Rods at each end of the feed-in-line : It is not a
Solid Copper Wire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ground_%28electricity%29
* While the Braided Outer Shield of the Coax Cable can 'be'
a Ground Radial between the two Ground Rods at each end
of the feed-in-line : It is not a Solid Copper Wire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radial_%28radio%29
TIP - While the Trench is Open : Place a Solid Copper Wire
in it to :
http://www.chem.hawaii.edu/uham/radials.html
* Better Connect {Bond} the two Ground Rods at each end
of the feed-in-line.
* Be a Better Ground Radial in the Ground then the Coax Cable
can be by itself.

ABOUT - Ground Radial Wire
Buried Radials: A Small Compendium -by- L. B. Cebik [W4RNL]
http://www.cebik.com/gp/gr.html
* Solid Bare Copper Wire to 'connect' along it's full lenght
with the Earthen-Soil {Ground} that it is laying in.
http://www.bencher.com/pdfs/00361ZZV.pdf
* # 16 AWG or Larger - In the trench running parallel with the
Coax Shield # 16 AWG Solid Bare Copper Wire will do OK.
http://www.radiobooks.com/products/grw1k.htm
-but-if- you happen to have a coupl of hundred feet of # 12 or #14
Insulated Solid Copper Wire laying around; and want to Strip
the Insulation off-of-it to use as for Ground Radials - Go For It !
http://www.signalengineering.com/ult...th_ground.html

The Radial "Rule-of-Thumb" for Receive Only Shortwave Antennas :
The More Radials the smaller the Radial Wire that can be use;
with # 16 AWG being about the smallest.
http://www.davisrf.com/ham1/grndwire.htm
16~18 or more Radials : # 16 AWG Solid Bare Copper Wire
8~9 Radials : # 14 AWG Solid Bare Copper Wire
3~4 Radials : # 12 AWG Solid Bare Copper Wire
Single Wire Counterpoise : # 10 AWG Solid Bare Copper Wire
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

The Guiding Principle of Radials : The More Radials The Better.
http://www.ncjweb.com/k3lcmaxgainradials.pdf

5-
etc...

iane ~ RHF