"John Smith" wrote in message
...
JB wrote:

...
Actually, a general quip about killing the goose that lays the golden
egg.
I notice that UAW rejected the package for the BIG3 Bailout. Who knows
where that's going. I see unions as a part of doing business, but when
so
many people are out of work that they do volunteer work, we're screwed.


Was teamster in a previous life (well, a younger one), I have nothing
bad to say of unions. I can remember stopping by the pub and being
given a "bad time" by non-union workers in my industry. I started more
than one fight by simply telling them, "I work for over two times as
much as you. I have complete medical, dental and prescriptions. My
retirement goes into a fund which is g-u-a-r-a-n-t-e-e-d. I don't sweat
a few bucks in union dues." -- For some reason, that was all it took!
grin


It's even worse when things are downsizing and cannibalism sets in. I
rode
a few right to the end.


Been there, done that (shudder!)

Regards,
JS

In order for a union to work, there has to be money there that you can
squeeze out of the company. And you have to have a bargaining position. If
what you do prevents the company from having working capital or market
changes force the company into bankruptcy, where is your bargaining
position? If the company and it's industry is indeed viable, go for it.
Corporations have unions but they call them cartels. There has to be a
struggle against the causes of exploitation. You don't want to see
situations like two-tier for employees or CTA voting pay cuts across the
board so they don't lose members who pay dues. Even though they have
hostages. My dad was a teamster for several years, but the pay stunk anyway
so he went to insurance sales during a strike so we wouldn't have to live on
macaroni and cheese. I never cross picket lines, I buy American made
products only or go to the thrift store. OK, I admit it I have bought new
stuff made in China probably by slave or prison labor because you can't even
get some products that are American made anymore. I drive an American car.
This is where it all breaks down, because if you are fighting to get food on
the table and decent wages, there are 10,000 more going out and buying
products made with slave labor and doing volunteer work while living on
pensions. If UAW can't get dues, who will guarantee the pensions? Ponzi?

My other peeve is tons of money out of the retirement fund (PERS) to the
Dems, who have so many other agendas that they conflict. Like selling out
to Chi-comms. They got kicked out of Washington and Oregon, so the Dems
shut down and leased them Long Beach Naval Shipyard to bring in Megatons of
cheap crap into the country. Like gun control. Remember Matewan.
Abortion. Any one who is OK with taking away peoples Constitutional rights
and killing people who don't have a voice might not care about you or me
either. And what's with this gay crap. If people want to do stuff like
that, I certainly don't want it forced on me or my kids.

The Fannie May/Freddie Mac bad loans were guaranteed and forced on the banks
by gov't. mandate and Barney Frank has been saying since 2004 that there was
nothing wrong, even while another Dem was saying it was the regulator's
fault for allowing it (ie we need more cops). I guess that makes Barney
some kind of expert.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_MGT_cSi7Rs&NR=1
BTW there is a lot of this pro and con in related YouTubes.

Nothing wrong with having a heart, you gotta care about the consequences
though. And fighting greed with greed gets you more greed.