On Jul 31, 10:03*am, "~ RHF" wrote:
On Jul 30, 4:34*pm, "Brenda Ann" wrote:
"Joe from Kokomo" wrote in ...
Joe from Kokomo wrote:
For the sake of this discussion, even if he was physically born in
Kenya (or Timbuktu or where ever), he would be an American citizen
by virtue of his mother being a citizen -- and nobody is
questioning her citizenship.
Geoffrey S. Mendelson wrote:
Nope, the constituion says "natural born citizen", which has been
interpreted as being on US soil.
Interesting.
So you are saying that if a pregnant American citizen, for whatever
reason (vacation, airline attendant), gives birth overseas, that her
child would never be able to be president? Just because the mother
happened to be on vacation?
Is this an "interpretation" of the law or an actual law? If an
"interpretation" (opinion), is this opinion treated as being
cast-in-concrete, and as carrying the same weight of a hard and fast
actual law?
- Natural born, by law, has nominally meant born of US parents
- (or parent, as long as paternity/maternity has been established
- by the *age of majority).
- This includes children born of US parent(s) overseas.
BAD -nah- You are worng, Wrong. WRONG !
Natural Born -is- Natural Born {Jus Soli}
*.
"US Presidential Qualifications for
Over-Educated {Liberal} Dummies"http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/660135ab7e5637ddhttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/5b1e6503976c7776
*.
WRT - "Natural Born" Citizen of the United Stateshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen
* That is "Jus Soli" [Birthplace]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
* Not "Jus Sanguinis" [Not Parents]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_sanguinis
*.
Birth-Right of Citizenship in the United States of Americahttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Birthright_citizenship_in_the_United_Sta...
*.
READ - Article Two of the United States Constitution
Legal # 1 : "Natural Born" US Citizen
Legal # 2 : Age 35 Years Oldhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Article_Two_of_the_United_States_Constit...
*.
? What is a "Natural Born" Citizen of the United States ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Natural_born_citizen
*.
? What is a "Natural Born" Citizen ?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Native-born_citizen
*.
* JUS SOLI Soli -wrt- Birthright Citizenshiphttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jus_soli
*.
Why US President Barack 'Hussein' Obama
"IS" Legally Legally My Presidenthttp://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio..shortwave/msg/c6316c12b599a912http://groups.google.com/group/rec.radio.shortwave/msg/3f781ddf16636575
*.
just a plain old 'organic' citizen or the world ~ RHF
*.
*.
Exactly what kinds of birth records does Hawaii provide?
Posted by Mijgreb on Thursday, February 05, 2009 12:00:00 AM
Generally, folks don't know that Hawaii law, even in 1961, provided
for multiple kinds of birth records, most of which are not what people
think of when they think of birth certificates. The following is a
description of those, including certificates for people not born in
Hawaii. Go figure!
1. In the State of Hawaii, back in 1961, there were three different
birth certificates that were obtainable:
a. If the birth was attended by a physician or mid wife, the
attending medical professional was required to certify to the
Department of Health the facts of the birth date, location, parents’
identities and other information. (See Section 57-8 & 9 of the
Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of
Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
b. In 1961, if a person was born in Hawaii but not attended by
a physician or mid wife, then, up to the first birthday of the child,
an adult could, upon testimony, file a “Delayed Certificate”, which
required endorsement on the Delayed Certificate of a summary statement
of the evidence submitted in support of the acceptance for delayed
filing, which evidence must be kept in a special permanent file. The
statute provided that the probative value of the Delayed Certificate
must be determined by the judicial or administrative body or official
before whom the certificate is offered as evidence. (See Section
57-18, 19 & 20 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics Act in the
1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
c. If a child born in Hawaii, for whom no physician or mid wife
filed a certificate of live birth, and for whom no Delayed Certificate
was filed before the first birthday, then a Certificate of Hawaiian
Birth could be issued upon testimony of an adult including the subject
person) if the Lieutenant Governor was satisfied that a person was
born in Hawaii, provided that the person had attained the age of one
year. (See Section 57-40 of the Territorial Public Health Statistics
Act in the 1955 Revised Laws of Hawaii which was in effect in 1961).
2. In 1982, the vital records law was amended to create a fourth
kind of birth certificate for children born outside of the Territory
or State of Hawaii. HRS Chapter 338 was amended to add a new section
authorizing the Director of the Department of Health to issue a birth
certificate for a person NOT born in Hawaii either as a Territory or
State, upon sufficient proof that the legal parents of such individual
had declared the Territory or State of Hawaii as their legal residence
for at least one year immediately preceding the birth of such child.
3. The language of the statute clearly applies to births in the
days of the Territory of Hawaii, so also births in 1961.
4. A press release concerning numerous questions raised across the
country as to whether or not Obama was a natural born citizen was
issued on October 31, 2008 by the Hawaii Department of Health by its
Director, Dr. Chiyome Fukino.
5. In that very carefully worded press release, Dr. Fukino said
that she had “personally seen and verified that the Hawaii State
Department of Health has Sen. Obama’s original birth certificate on
record in accordance with state policies and procedures.”
6. The intentional ambiguity of that statement raises more
questions that it answered.
7. That statement failed to resolve any of the questions being
raised by litigation across the country over the issue of Obama’s
birth and qualifications for the office of the President of the United
States, including:
a. The specific type of certificate was not identified. Could
it be the certificate for someone born outside of the State of Hawaii?
b. Being “on record” could mean either that its contents are in
the computer database of the department or an actual “vault”
original. If the latter, those are the words used to describe what is
there. The data base record could have been entered based on a birth
record for someone born outside of Hawaii.
c. Therefore, the value as prima facie evidence is limited and
easily overcome if any of the allegations of substantial evidence of
birth outside Hawaii can be obtained and verified with a Court Order.
8. It should also be noted that in the face of all this
litigation, the simple presentation of Obama’s vault birth records
would put the questions to rest.
9. Obama has not taken this approach to a single one of the cases,
but instead has hired legal counsel across the country at no small
expense to defend the claims with motions to dismiss on standing and
similar procedural grounds.
10. Such response to the request for proof that he is qualified to
serve as President of the United States of America only serves to
raise more questions about this election.