On Sep 15, 12:32*pm, Day Brown wrote:
On 09/15/2010 12:42 PM, bpnjensen wrote: On Sep 15, 8:35 am, *wrote:

First:
For the statement to be even close to accurate, it would have to be
morally reprehensible to spank a child, and it is far from it. *You
may not agree with it, but your narrow viewpoint does not dictate the
morals for everyone. (and before you ask, I have found the need to
spank my children.)

Then you are unethical, and YES I can make that statement, which is
different from dictating it (*Learn* the difference if learning is
within your ability). *Tough **** if you don't like it, you brutal
*******.

Yes you can make the statement, but you dont have any science to back it
up. Nor history. Epictetus:"The boy who learned to control slaves (and
today they are electronic), does not learn to control himself."

Science? Like basic compassion is scientific?

I've spanked a toddler to keep him from going in the street and getting
run over. At this age, reasoning with him is not effective.

How nice of you. You would have been better off to actually watch the
toddler to begin with. I see too many parents who let their kids out
of their restraint and then blame the kid. Same with pets. The
parents need the spanking for being reckless.

In the hill town schools, if a boy is disruptive, the teacher calls the
office and enough other people arrive to take him in hand, literally
picking him up. This is primate instinctive behavior at work. Soon as
the boy is up off his feet, he realizes there is power greater than his
will to try to dominate and control others.

As long as it isn't violent, I'm OK with it.

The spanking itself is merely the apex of a psychological process which
only takes a few seconds. Without it, such bullies would be physically
abusing smaller kids. Totally avoiding what you say is abuse is not
possible. Controlling it is, and while you may use drugs, I am very
concerned because there are no long term studies of the effect.

Parents create bullies...parents can stop them. If they do not, then
you expel the kid until the parents figure it out.

I would NEVER use drugs on kids and I have no idea why you insist on
this even more irresponsible alternative.

Where's YOUR science?

You got any kids we can try drugs out on?

Blah blah blah.

Its instructive that you resort to ad hominem.

I responded with EXACTLY the kind of ad-hominem that the prior poster
used.

The science is that properly administered pain adjusts hormone levels, and with that the behavior which risks abuse of other kids stops. Now, if you have any
other research besides your anal orifice, I'd be glad to see it.

Link, please? Meanwhile -

My Dad swatted me a few times. It taught me that my Dad had a limited
imagination and a strong hand. To this day, I do not believe I did
anything to earn those swats, and I have never used corporal
punishment on my child, who:

~ Does not run in the street
~ Does not bully others
~ Neither needs nor used drugs, legal or otherwise
~ Does good work in school
~ Works very well in a team or independently
~ Is basically respectful to others
~ Knows he can trust me
~ Has no black and blue marks like I did.

It was never, ever, necessary. There are other ways besides violence.

Bruce Jensen