On Sep 15, 8:03*am, bpnjensen wrote:
On Sep 15, 6:47*am, RHF wrote:



On Sep 14, 10:11*pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 14, 9:18*pm, wrote:

On Sep 14, 10:32*pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 14, 3:53*pm, John Smith wrote:

On 9/14/2010 4:05 PM, dave wrote:

...
It's a little late for that.

Where exactly does it say"very limited government"? If the government is
the people why would they want to limit the people?

In the part which says that any powers not given (mentioned) are
reserved for the state and people ... better late than never ....

Regards,
JS

As long as you have a Republic, people will hand over the reigns to
the representatives to do the hard work. *In exchange for having
elected people to sit down and work out the hard and complex details
of difficult legislation, power will be concentrated and expanded in
places that you'd rather not see it. *Such is the nature of a
republic. *People who believe otherwise are fooling themselves.

The only way to avoid this and maintain something other than a
dictatorship, and it is a severely double-edged sword, is through
direct Democracy. *With that, the people make ALL the rules and bypass
the middleman of the republic. *But, beware - there is nothing more
disjointed and cumbersome and damned downright confusing than a set of
laws created by The People.

My guess is that both of these ideas work better on a very small scale
- like in a town or a county. *Once you get to the Statewide level,
things start breaking down again, and at the national level - well,
you see what we have.

You have to choose your poison, or go live in Antarctica.

It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !

Yes - they were much smaller than 2010 USA. *A lot of history
transpired between the Fall of Greece I and the Fall of Greece II !!!

- Modern Greece is, I am afraid, in a position similar to California.

Los Californianos* need to DEMAND that each and
every one of the California Elected US Senators and
US Congress persons Demand that California get
each and every Dollar Pay by Californians in US
Federal {IRS] Taxes Returned to California in
Federal Spending.http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...27faca882fb518...

* All the Citizens of the 'California Republic'http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_Republic
.
Prez-A-Duntz Obama - return to the Citizens of the
California Republic all the US Federal Tax Dollars :
Stop Stealing from California and driving up our
Unemployment and Bankrupting Californiahttp://groups.google.com/group/alt.politics.liberalism/msg/c0167411ac...
*.
-wrt- The California State Economy :
A Casualty of the US Federal Government's
Tax and Spend Robbery of the Citizens of
the California Republic (State of California)http://groups.google.com/group/rec.r...faa3aa477f59a3...
*.
*.

My theory - The European Union, of which they are now a part, holds
the keys to the treasury and the money machine, much like the US
Treasury. *The larger conglomeration can print money if it needs to
pay off its debts (albeit at an inflated rate), while the individual
nation-state cannot do this (as Greece used to be able to do). *Nether
Greece nor California can print its own $$$ like the larger system, so
they are in economic hot water.

Bruce Jense4n- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

- You're setting up an "us vs. them" paradigm in which it's California
- vs. the rest of the US,
- as though we are somehow separate and not intertwined with the rest
of
- the nation.
-
- You know this is not true.

That is right : 'not true -cause- I did not say anything
about an "Us-versus-Them" pair-of-dimes ;;-}}

In the Federation of States know as the USA :
Each of the States is an Equal Partner and
'Collectively those States are a 'Union'.

-*What is good or bad for other states and
- regions can have comparably
- good and bad effects on California, and vice-versa.

And . . . a $50B Yearly Ecomonic Rape of the
State of California for Decades is 'good' for the
State of California and 'The Union' of All States ?

- Of course, you probably know which states
- rely most heavily on public funding from the feds -
- IIRC, the State that largely complains the most
- about big-brother type government - Alaska -

Yes Alaska gets back $1.88 for each and every
$1.00 it sends to the US Federal Government.

- is alos the biggest sink for federal fuinds per capita.

Yes that is a 'per-capita' number so a state like
Alaska with a relatively small population can
'appear' to be getting a Big Wind Fall when the
Collective Dollar Total is actually smaller than
other States.

- If we, and other "wealthy" (and I use the term
- loosely) states demanded and got our money
- all back in some form, places like Alaska would
- become third-world countries fast.

California with Billions of US Dollars of Deficit
Spending per Year : IS NOT HEALTHY [.]

Don't Want Any of My US Tax Dollars to go to Any
Third World Countries when My Own State is Billions
of Dollars of Deficit Spending in the Red each Year.

-*That would not be good for the people there or
- the Republic.

The US Constitution calls for the the US Federal
Government to 'Promote The General Welfare' and
it is My-Opinion that 'Promoting The General Welfare'
Begins at Home First : In the State of California :
Once California is Economically Healthy again
{has Good General Welfare} then we can share with
the Rest of the "Union".

- As much as I dislike Alaskan politics, I want
- the people there to live satisfactory lives, and
- without the rest of us pitching in to help,

Would you be saying the same thing if it were
a 'southern' State ?

No Where in the US Constitution did I read that
All Member States Had to be Equal in all things.

- it likely won't happen.

Give the Alaska Lands over to the State of Alaska
and allow the Citizens of Alaska to Decide and
Manage their Natural Resources for themselves.

- As a Californian, I am happy to help out.

As a California : I say "California Heal Thy Self !"
Help California First -by- Helping California First
-by- Spending Our California US Federal Tax
Dollars right hear in the State of California to
Re-Build the Economy of California and General
Welfare of the Citizens of the State of California.

- Bruce Jensen

~ RHF - [Viva Los Californianos !]
http://www.loscalifornianos.org/