On Sep 15, 8:14*am, bpnjensen wrote:
On Sep 14, 10:18*pm, wrote:



On Sep 15, 1:11*am, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 14, 9:18*pm, wrote:

On Sep 14, 10:32*pm, bpnjensen wrote:

On Sep 14, 3:53*pm, John Smith wrote:

On 9/14/2010 4:05 PM, dave wrote:

...
It's a little late for that.

Where exactly does it say"very limited government"? If the government is
the people why would they want to limit the people?

In the part which says that any powers not given (mentioned) are
reserved for the state and people ... better late than never ....

Regards,
JS

As long as you have a Republic, people will hand over the reigns to
the representatives to do the hard work. *In exchange for having
elected people to sit down and work out the hard and complex details
of difficult legislation, power will be concentrated and expanded in
places that you'd rather not see it. *Such is the nature of a
republic. *People who believe otherwise are fooling themselves.

The only way to avoid this and maintain something other than a
dictatorship, and it is a severely double-edged sword, is through
direct Democracy. *With that, the people make ALL the rules and bypass
the middleman of the republic. *But, beware - there is nothing more
disjointed and cumbersome and damned downright confusing than a set of
laws created by The People.

My guess is that both of these ideas work better on a very small scale
- like in a town or a county. *Once you get to the Statewide level,
things start breaking down again, and at the national level - well,
you see what we have.

You have to choose your poison, or go live in Antarctica.

It work very well in the ancient Greek city-states. Look what had
happened since they have joined the Common Market and EU !

Yes - they were much smaller than 2010 USA. *A lot of history
transpired between the Fall of Greece I and the Fall of Greece II !!!

Modern Greece is, I am afraid, in a position similar to California.
My theory - The European Union, of which they are now a part, holds
the keys to the treasury and the money machine, much like the US
Treasury. *The larger conglomeration can print money if it needs to
pay off its debts (albeit at an inflated rate), while the individual
nation-state cannot do this (as Greece used to be able to do). *Nether
Greece nor California can print its own $$$ like the larger system, so
they are in economic hot water.

Bruce Jense4n- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

That sounds like the 'Big Brother' is not a fiction at all...- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

...but in the US it's been this way since dirt. *Each individual state
is it's own "nation" so to speak, with its own government and issues
to address, but the U.S. is Union of many states, is a supreme entity
with an overarching legal framework (the Constitution) and is the one
that prints the common currency. *We here in the U.S. (especially
conservatives, generally) complain that we don't want to be like, or
be part of, the European Union, deeming it socialist and so forth -
but in reality, the EU is based loosely on what the U.S. already
is...a larger framework for the common good of all the member states.

- California could, I suppose,
- print its own "greenbacks"
- to start to pay off its debts -

Yes California 'Greenback' "CALI"s {not US Dollars}
that are printed-on 'Fine' California Grown Hemp Paper
based on California's Ability to Produce the Finest
Hemp Produces in the World. Underwritten by the
'Growing' California Economy : Productive Output in
Goods, Services and Primo 'Grass'. ;;-}}

Hello - Vote 'YES" on California Proposition 19
{The Marijuana Legalization Initiative of 2010}
http://ballotpedia.org/wiki/index.ph...ive_%282010%29
-wrt- Grow It ! -and- Tax It !
* Stop Sending Drug Money Overseas
* * Recycle It Right Here At Home in California
* Regulate It and TAX IT !
* * Control It and Put It To Productive Uses.

- I am not an economist per se, so I do not know
- what advantage that would gain us - but I doubt if it would work
very
- well,

-wrt- Bank of North Dakota*
http://www.banknd.nd.gov/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bank_of_North_Dakota
California urgently needs an "International {State}
Bank of the California Republic"

- as currency is supposed to be based on *something*,
either gold or silver or other valuable commodity,

YES a "Some-Thing" which is a 'Valuable Commodity'

Are "WE" that 'Some-Thing' ?

- which we do not have in abundance just now.

What About the 'Value' of the Productive Ability and
Capacity of 310M USA'ians and 37M Californians ?
'We The People' -are- The Underlying Productive
Wealth that Supports the Debt of the US Treasury.

- Such is the case now with Greece - its drachmas
- are no longer much good by themselves.
- Bruce

What Is : The 'Value' of the Productive Ability and
Capacity of 11 M Greek Citzens* ? ? ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greece
* Less than 1/3rd of California

BACK TO PRINTING MONEY AND IT VALUE :

When US President Lincoln -by-act-of-congress-
started Printing the "Union" {Greenback} Dollar :
the individual States were encouraged to get out
of the Currency 'printing' Business.
http://www.xat.org/xat/usury.html
http://www.prolognet.qc.ca/clyde/pres.htm
http://www.trosch.org/law/fed-paper-money.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Note
http://www.paymasterusa.org/union_money.html
http://www.heritech.com/pridger/lincoln/lin-ken.htm
http://ecclesia.org/forum/uploads/bo...greenbackP.pdf

The US Dollar is NOT {presently} based on Gold or Silver
{Reserves} but on the US Economy's Productive Output
and Income {Revenue} that that produces.

The US Dollar is {presently} based on the US Economy :
The Hardworking Citizens of the USA's 'productive ability'
to Make and Do "Things" {Goods and Services} that can
be Exchanged {Bought and Sold or 'Bartered'} in/on the
USA Market and in/on International Markets. -er-go-

* A Healthy Strong US Economy is a 'Good' Valued
US Dollar in the National and World Marketplace.
-aka- A Worthy Debt with Proven Ability To Pay
the Interest on US Treasury Notes.

* A Sick Weak US Economy is a 'Bad' No-Value
US Dollar in the National and World Marketplace.
-aka- A Lousy Debt with "No" Ability To Pay the
Interest on US Treasury Notes.