"Thomas Heger" wrote in message
...
Am 11.10.2011 18:50, schrieb SaPeIsMa:

..

You still don't see the entire scale of the problem.
The prison is only the 'tip of the iceberg'. But try to imagine all
the other negative side effects.


And you are only focused on the "negative side effects" and ignore any
of the positives

E.g. the addictive person steals a car, for example yours. To get you
out off the car, he points a gun at you. Now we have some sort of
extreme situation, but lets imagine you are rescued by somebody, that
shoots at the criminal.


1) Very few addicts bother getting guns. They are too busy using what
wealth they have to pay for drugs.
2) Very few addicts do car-jackings. They are far more occupied with
scoring and enjoying the high.
3) Why should someone else rescue me, when I can put a bullet in the
car-jacking druggie, the moment I get a chance
4) If I pull my gun, I will most likely unload it into the druggie, to
make sure he's not a threat any more
5) I may be "in shock" after the shooting, but I'm alive and still have
my car.
6) The druggie is dead.
7) The police have little to do except advise the DA that it was a good
shoot.
Problem solved


It was an example. But I have the impression, it was at least a little
realistic.


Sure
With VERY HEAVY emphasis on "least"..
:-)

BTW: In Germany we don't have 'carjacking'. Didn't know that word, but
heard of such crimes.


I'm sure that it's happened a few times.
It's basically someone coming up to you sitting in your car and evicting you
forcibly from it to steal your car.

The reason is a typical German speciality within the system of civil laws,
because we have a distinction between ownership ('Eigentum') and
possession ('Besitz').
The physical control ('Besitz') doesn't help much, because it is only
possession of a stolen car. To get ownership, you need a special
certificate of ownership ('Kraftfahrzeugbrief') , what is usually stored
in a safe place.

And you presume that we don't understand the differnce ?
If you borrow my car, you have possession of it, while I still remain
the owner
In the same way, if you carjack me, you have possession, while I still
have ownership.
This is not a concept unique to Germany, bub..


Armed street robbery is not very common here, too. (Actually I don't know
the reason for that.)


Mostly cultural
In the US most of the street crime is attributed to young black and hispanic
males
Although they represent a very small percentage of the population, they have
a inordinately high crime rate in just about all the categories. For
examples they are 7 times more likely to be murdered and 5 times more likely
to commit murder than any other group in US society.
If you take the statistical anomaly that they create in US crime statistics,
the US would rank below Canada overall.


Now we have a person under shock and a badly injured criminal and the
police has a lot of work. The costs here are not only, what all these
people earn (policemen, hospital, prison wards, lawyers, ambulance
drivers and so forth), but somehow the negative effects on quality of
life, what has a value, too.


That's only true in your worst-case scenario
IN the alternate scenario with a dead carjacking druggie, the only costs
are
1) hauling off the body to the morgue
2) Autopsy
3) police filing a good shoot report
4) buying ammo to replace what was used.



The term 'cost' is used in economy differently to how the word is commonly
used. 'Cost' means the value of the items used in measures of currency.


Stop being a pontificating dweeb
Most intelligent people know the multiple meanings of the word cost.


redundant pontification snipped

E.g. a prison adds nothing to pleasure and beauty, but a new - say -
stadium would.


That would depend on the design of both the prison and the stadium
And the social benefit of locking up criminals far outweighs the social
benefit of a stadium that is empty most of the time.


Than the cost of that prison is (besides - say - 10 mio $) one stadium.


After all the bull**** about the various meanings of "cost", you forget to
consider the various meanings of "benefits"

Smarten up, bub..



Streetlife has a value. That is the possibility to use public spaces
without fear. If you are afraid of being ripped off, than your
possibilities are reduced.


And the reverse, is that if there are armed citizens, street scum are
less apt to try to rip off people since the thing they fear the MOST,
ABOVE ALL ELSE, is an ARMED CITIZEN

Actually I think, what they fear most is the pain from having no drugs.
Next is the police and than - maybe - citizens.

BZZT
Wrong again
Research proves you wrong

Maybe YOU need to do a bit more research before you continue demonstrating
that you confuse presumption with knowledge...


snip more silly pontification



The reduction of personal liberties, due to the 'war on drugs' is also
worth to mention.


Change of subject noted


Same with such thing as 'liberties'. Liberties certainly belong to the
nicer things, you like to have.


And yet, most people are completely unaware of how easily and often they are
trampled by those in power
And many times with the excuse that it's for your own good..