Hi
Thanks for the ideas.

I have seen a lot of utubes of folks heating water with their panels, or
charging battery banks or more secondary ideas. The primary idea is to go on
the grid, that makes the most practical sense because they pay for the power
a rate of 5 times what the power is purchased by me from the same grid. So
after factoring in all the losses from heating water and required voltages
to meet certain wattages it just cheaper to plug into the wall. Or use the
wood stove. So a lot of secondary ideas do not seem practical. I will hold
off on the secondary or auxillary until later because I can add that easily.
I will only focus on the primary now and that is the program that supplies
100% of power produced to the grid. I can only provide 10 kw max that they
will pay for. Anything over and they don't pay for that. But name plate
ratings must equal 10kw or less but you will never reach that efficiency.

My choice now is between the Enphase microinverters or the Solaredge single
inverter with the optimizers. Are there any advantages to either one over
the other that you folks are aware of? They seem to be both as efficient,
the SolarEdge system is 20% cheaper, they both do not operate without
attached to the grid.

While I am reading that these panels efficiencies levels will only produce
really 80% of their plate ratings could I add two more panels down the road
to the array? With Microinverters I would have to purchase two more at a few
hundred dollars and more harnesses, but with SolarEdge I believe I can add
more panels easily and get as close to the 10KW to earn maximum as possible.

I am wondering what the ease of installation, maintenance, repair, adjust,
addition or subtration of panels to the system. Which system is more
prefered? Enphase or Solaredge? Watching the Solaredge with optimizers now
seem to look more simpler to install, but Microinverters seem to be the new
thing. I am wondering how you folks think about one or the other, why or
why not.

I just want to focus on the primary now and earn as much as possible from
the grid and 40 panels that qualify me for the program. My thinking now is
to buy an additional 2 panels, keep them charging (seperate small charge
controller) small battery bank and have them jump over to help the grid
(become 42 panels) when batteries are full. I can figure that switch or
diverter safely and easily enough but which inverter would work best for
that type of thinking? I would think the SolarEdge because the
MicroInverters on the two seperate would not work to charge the batteries.
So if power does go out I have the two panels to keep batteries charging.

Any comments on this? Which inverters do you folks like best? SolarEdge or
Enphase? Both have almost a 25 year warrenty and I believe both might be
around for 25 years. Seems to be the new thing these solar panels. I don't
think these big firms will be going anywere soon.

Thanks again for all advice,,

73s










"Tom W3TDH" wrote in message
...
On Friday, August 21, 2015 at 10:01:54 AM UTC-4, Tom wrote:
No, I believe you folks here have a lot of helpful information.

And even the not so helpful information sometimes helps just as much. So I
appreciate it all.

Sure, I can install my first ever solar project and join that group, but
the
width of knowledge this group touches on so much more and items the other
groups might not.

I am reading all the links and dissecting all the information you folks
throw and believe me, it is all so very helpful and appreciated.

Keep throwing, I am going forward with this and I am just curioius as to
all
your comments about both those inverters that are available. Very
expensive
so I want to make the most informed decision as to which to purchase,
before
I do.

Thanks folks, have a great day

73s





"Jerry Stuckle" wrote in message
...
On 8/21/2015 9:00 AM, Tom wrote:
Thanks gents

Great, thanks for all your thoughts.

I wanted to stay away from the battery bank thing, I have enough
trouble
with keeping 4 or 5 deep cycles alive for more than 5 or 6 years. But I
may introduce them to a PV system.
But all my Deep Cycles are different sizes, so sure would like some of
those Tesla by Elon. I believe that person is developing a huge PV
manufacturing facility in Buffalo NY but I talked to SolarCity reps and
they will not deal with Canadian market.

My program is with Ontario Hydro and up north our local providers are
shaky and unreliable. In Ontario Canada the provincial govt is recently
(last decade or more) really screwed things up, they started a Gas
Power
Plant and cancelled that after about a billion, they have had other
programs that they started and abruptly ended after loosing a few
billion and now they are in a 50 year debt and trying to sell off to
private (fire sale) and they are offering this program to me for a 20
year contract. So I must install 40 panels on my roof and tie it all
into the grid and they want 100% of it and paying a pretty nice penny
per KWh. But the initial investment by me is substantial up front so if
they pull out of the deal in one year then I have a very big expensive
inverters that are good for nothing. A lot of people in Ontario Canada
don't think that the local Ontary Hydro will be long for this world, so
we don't want to get stuck on this program and left hanging.

I can see them keeping me (and all home owners or cottage owners) as
providers because we aren't unionized and costing more to produce it
than selling it, I think they are trying to eliminate the nuclear (60%
of our power in Ontario) because it is costing too much debt. So their
goal may be to get all that can to provide it because I maintain the
house structure and panel system and no union or salary or coffee
breaks. But they could cancel that tomorrow leaving me a $30,000 system
I can do nothing with.

I like what they are offering, it seems too good to be true.

I will take a chance, role the dice and jump in. For the program.
Without the program it isn't worth it at this time.

Thanks very much for all the food for thought, I will implement a small
charge controller and small battery bank system. I like your Diesel
Generator idea for if ever the power does go out, which it does. But it
is small to worry about. Thanks again for all the ideas.

For my primary reason for this system, I will buy the 40 panels and do
you folks have any reasons why you would select the Solaredge
technology
with the new optimizers for efficiencies (about $3000.00) for their
product, or using Enphase microinverters (about $7000.00). Other than
costs difference, which would you folks prefer? Both become useless if
the power grid goes off, but both are looking pretty equal for
efficiences and installation is easy enough.

All the surfing and reading I see is everyone has installed the
Solaredge and it seems to have improved nicely, while the Enphase is
the
lastest and not really had many years of use to compare, but they
apparently to some are the better device.

Do you folks have any comments on either of these devices?

Have good day, thanks


You're going to be better off asking questions like this in a solar
power related group. I don't think anyone here has any detailed
experience with what you're asking.

--
==================
Remove the "x" from my email address
Jerry, AI0K

==================

Tom

During my time as an electrician doing contract work for Westinghouse I
installed photo-voltaic arrays from Alaska to Argentina and except for one
design fault that was totally beyond my control all of my installations were
successful in that they all worked as designed and did what they were
supposed to do. Most of these installs were stand alone power systems for
remote communications sites. I have done very few grid tie systems and
those were not residential scale installs but rather institutional systems
for a college and a factory. That said the principals of operation on these
large grid tie systems are the same as on residential sized systems.

What you may want to consider is the addition of a load diverter to your
system. A load diverter reacts to the fall off of current flow to the
primary load and connects the photo voltaic array to a different load so as
to continue to make use of the current that is available from the array. In
an off grid system the alternate load might be resistive water heating.

With a grid tie system I cannot imagine any reason that the load diverter
could not have a battery charger as the primary load and the grid tie
inverter as it's secondary load. With that arrangement once the batteries
are charged the photo voltaic array is connected to the grid tie inverter.
That would require overly complicated wiring with the micro inverters but it
would work fine with the more common single unit inverters.

A separate inverter supplied from the batteries supplies back up power. If
you buy the more sophisticated type of back up inverter it can start a
standby generator if the load becomes more than the inverter can carry.
That is how many off grid systems are arranged so that when the load is
lighter the back up inverter supplies the needed current. When the ampacity
of the back up inverter is insufficient the engine alternator set
(generator) picks up the load and shuts down automatically when the load
drops below the back up inverters capacity. One tremendous advantage is
that once the occupants retire to sleep the load drops and the silent
inverter picks up the remaining load until people get up and begin using
more power. You do have to size the battery array and the back up inverter
to carry all of the overnight loads for eight hours or so. The use of
larger pressure tanks or a small elevated water tank could take care of
overnight toilet flushing and hand washing.

What you want can work but the cost will approach building two systems. The
thing that you save on is the photo voltaic array.

--
Tom Horne