"Dick Carroll;" writes:
Len wrote:

You define "limited interest in CW" to be "limited interest in ARS"
because you define ARS as inherently including CW. Since that's the
topic under discussion, you are begging the question.

NO, that's not the topic under discussion. The topic under discussion was
the REQUIREMENTS for licensing, whatever they might be.

Let's run through this slowly. The question is whether the CW
component of the ARS licensure requirement should be kept. (I say
yes.)

If the requirement were dropped, then the ARS would have no CW
requirement. Participation in the hobby would not involve the
mandatory learning of code. The ARS would be a hobby in which some
people learned code, and some people didn't. Clear?

Under that circumstance, people who got their "no-code extra" would be
participants in the ARS. Some of them wouldn't know Morse Code at
all. You would reply that they have "limited interest in the
ARS". That would be untrue; they have plenty of interest in the ARS,
but no interest in CW.

To equate "no interest in CW" with "limited interest in the ARS"
involves defining the ARS as inherently requiring CW--that the ARS
without CW isn't really the ARS at all. But whether the ARS should
require CW at all is the topic under discussion. You're begging the
question.

(It's possible to patch up your argument so that it doesn't beg the
question. But saying, "You don't want to learn CW, therefore you
aren't interested in the ARS" is pointless and begs the question.)

I believe in keeping the CW requirement, and even adding a few more
requirements, precisely to enhance the loyalty of licensees and to
discourage those who wouldn't be active anyway, or would engage in
bad practice...

Really? And how would a swimming requirement add to the operational
capability of a ham radio operator?

I didn't say it would. Learn to read. (Note: learning CW doesn't
affect the operational capability of someone who never uses it.)

If you support Morse code testing I assume you already know how
Morse code proficiency adds to the communications capability of a
ham radio operator.

Only if used. If not, the operator might as well have learned landline
telegraph code. The benefit for the hobby would still accrue, though.

Ah, you're already the enemy of the code free, and that just cinches
it. "weed them out" will get you no friends and lots of enemies on
here.

Barriers to entry are good. Weeding out the diffident is
beneficial. If that ticks off the diffident, they can have a latte and
a good cry, on the house.

Since swimming has about as much to do with radiocommunication as
tiddlewinks you're just blowing smoke now. Interest level is
interest level, you can't change it by playing semantics.

Interest is demonstrated by making the effort. The nature of the
effort is secondary--but if it meets some operational objective, so
much the better.

Regards,
Len.