"Jim Hampton" wrote in message ...
Bert,

I don't mean to just break in on your argument with Phil, but consider what
we are going through in Rochester, NY. Taxes are sky high, we lost over
800,000 people in New York since the mid 90s (jobs disappearing, wages going
down, taxes going up).

Many of them are moving across the state lines to NJ or PA, etc.

California has a similar problem. There is an exodus of non-immigrant
Americans from the Golden State for similar reasons. The turnaround
point was about 1995. Only massive immigration keeps CA numbers up.

Obviously, the local governments are trying to cut
budgets. Police and firemen are not being replaced as they retire or quit.
Enforcement is spotty at best. We just had a large block burn down in the
city due to arson a few months ago. People were doing oil changes in the
streets (if not stripping cars) and oil was left in the streets. Laws were
passed, but weren't favored by a lot of folks. Loud booming radios were
causing problems. Laws were passed, but ignored. Those folks that you
think believe in the American Way started pushing the envelope. There is
now a severe drug problem (heck, if I'm not hurting anyone, it isn't any of
your business). We now have the second highest murder rate in New York
outside of New York City!

WOW!

Worse than Buffalo or Albany?

The problem is that there is little enforcement,
and some folks get emboldened.

Bingo.

It starts out with little things....

Locally, they have a new tact. There are
now City of Rochester Police, Monroe County Sheriffs, and New York State
Troopers patrolling Rochester. Go ahead, spit your gum out. If you're
seen, you will get a ticket. Any violation, no matter how minor, and you
will get stopped. You may not be searched, but pray you don't have anything
visible in your car that you shouldn't (like a little bag with some white
powder in it). They are starting real enforcement and there will be a lot
of minor violators that will end up paying some stiff fines.

I understand that this "zero tolerance" approach was done in New York
City under Rudy Giuliani. Things like turnstile-jumping, graffiti,
even jaywalking were jumped on with both feet by law enforcement AND
backed up by the courts. One side effect was that a considerable
number of folks for whom there were bench warrants were brought in for
minor violations and kept. Another was that major crime dropped.

I don't see
any other way around the situation here; I also don't see things getting any
better in the radio business without some *serious* enforcement. That would
include the skip-shooting - at least until things quiet down to a dull roar.
The lack of enforcement (regardless of cause, which is invariably lack of
funds) is not only allowing things to get worse, it is actively promoting
things to get worse.

Yup. And it's a gradual thing that shows up in many ways. Similar to
when a neighborhood goes downhill. It starts with little things like
not taking care of properties and not reining in minor offenses. But
it doesn't stop there.
Pretty soon most of the people who can move out are gone.

This is not a minor problem in amateur radio. There's all sorts of
talk about young people not wanting to learn the code, yada yada yada,
but not much about how the antics of a few can turn off young people
and their parents. And if that happens, forget about recruitment.

73 de Jim, N2EY