RadioBanter - View Single Post - RM-10808 --- Wexelbaum Redux

October 13th 03, 09:04 PM

In article , (N2EY)
writes:

In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

"N2EY" wrote in message
...
In article , "Carl R. Stevenson"
writes:

and a "reward" for learning. I fail to understand why removing Morse
testing is any different from removing all aspects of RTTY knowledge
from the written test, e.g. "T8A10. What would you connect to a
transceiver for RTTY operation?".

Clearly AH0A can't understand (or accept) that the RTTY example
is "theoretical knowledge" and the Morse test is a test of a mechanical
skill ...

You mean "a practical skill".

No, I meant "mechanical skill." (touch typing would be in the same
category ...)

Both are also practical skills, are they not? Practical as opposed to
theoretical.

If you have a problem with amateur radio license test questions, senior,
I'd suggest you contact the VEC Question Pool Committee. They are
the ones originating the content and on what subjects. FCC no longer
requires a certain percentage of specific subjects in the pool.

Both are valuable to the radio amateur. Whether either should be tested is
a matter of opinion, nothing more.

But if a person has no interest in RTTY, why should that person be
subjected to questions on the subject?

Why can't a ham be trusted to learn about RTTY if/when the desire to use
that mode arises? RTTY is "just another mode", is it not? There's no
requirement for any ham to ever use it.

There is an ITU-R Recommendation that deals with the sorts of
THEORETICAL knowledge that hams should possess ... IIRC,
it's ITU-R Recommendation M.1544 ...

It's just a recommendation, though - not a requirement.

Why such an absolute on "requirement" versus "recommendation?"

ITU-R documents are NOT law per se. Those are common-
agreement items for _administrations_ to consider.

At NO time will there be ANY ITU-R "police officials" arresting
ANYONE for any violations of ITU-R radio regulations or
recommendations, ANY radio service ANYWHERE.

That recommendation is consistent with the basis and purpose
of the ARS, both as defined by the FCC and the ITU.

So is touch typing, knowing Morse code, knowing how to solder, and a whole
bunch of other things.

Is the "basis and purpose of the ARS" all about morse code?

I don't think so, not in any observation of the FCC regulations.

While not strictly mandatory, it is provided as "good advice to
administrations" on what sorts of theoretical knowledge hams
should possess.

Sure - but it's just a recommendation.

Irrelevant. NO ONE can be arrested for violation of an ITU-R
"regulation." Quit trying to belabor an irrelevant point.

Can we really say that the questions on RTTY in the current written tests
really assure that hams have theoretical knowledge of RTTY at the level
recommended by M-1544?

And note this:

When I took my most recent ham exam that counted for a license, the only TOR
mode authorized for hams was 60 wpm Baudot code RTTY using FSK or OOK. (Shift
had to be less than 900 Hz, as I recall.

Oh, my. When I first USED teleprinters...NO formal classes, NO test,
just an on-the-job informal explanatin-instruction...it was over a decade
before your precious FCC test. The standard "shift" (also referred to as
"spread" colloquially) was 850 Hz Mark to Space in FSK only.

"TOR" is a partial acronym referring to "Teleprinter Over Radio" and came
into use FIRST in the commercial communications field, NOT amateur.

No PSK-31, no packet, no PACTOR or even AMTOR. Not even ASCII!

The American Standard Code for Information Interchange was divised
in the 1950s, senior, by both commercial communications and the
new Information Technology activities (than referred to as just
"computers").

"Packet" forms of net transmission already existed in the commercial
and military communications services of the 1940s. The most
rudimentary form is in the "automatic transmission distributor" portion
of teleprinter paper tape terminals (designed, manufactured by
Teletype Corporation among others). Most terminals had dual tape
readers to accept prepared tapes. As one tape finished in one reader,
the other reader began its tape; throughput was continuous as long
as an operator kept loading new tapes. This was referred to as a
"torn tape relay" system. Receiving printer-punchers were also dual
but for tape supply, not individual messages. Manual operators
would observe EOM symbols and new message address preambles
to manually separate (or "tear") received tape messages. Station
ADA had over 170 of such terminals in use 24/7.

Washington Army Radio ("WAR") was already using an automatic
electromechanical switching teleprinter message exchange system
in the mid 1950s. "Torn tape" operators were not required since the
switching system automatically routed the electrical loop signal to
the appropriate outgoing circuit through address preamble information.
The only manual operation necessary in relaying was if there was
circuit trouble resulting in garbled information.

"Packet" data networking has many and varied forms in the commercial
world. Perhaps the most-written-up form is ALOHA. It is in literature
of the electronics communications industry and Transactions of IEEE
Communications Society.

Back then the power limit was different, repeater rules were very different,
and the 30, 17 or 12 meter bands weren't even a distant dream. The technology
used in most ham rigs was also very different.

"Repeaters" came into being around 1940 in the US military. They
were known as "radio relay" then and for several decades afterwards.
The AN/PRC-6 handheld transceiver (VHF, internal battery power,
debuted during the Korean War) was DESIGNED to work with
another PRC-6 using a specific adapter cable for unattended repeater
operation. So too were the PRC-9 series of manpack transceivers,
all designed for easy set-up in pairs as unattended repeaters. The
AN/TRC-1 through AN/TRC-8 group of radio relay terminals was
specifically designed for unattended operation and were used in
Europe during WW2. "Repeaters" are certainly nothing new in
technology nor are they of amateur radio origin.

And the tests we took back then had lots of things in them that are no longer
in the current tests. Neutralization of triode RF power amplifiers, for
example.....

I was successfully operating high-power vacuum tube amplifiers in HF
communications WITHOUT being formally tested and WITHOUT any
formal training in high-power HF transmitters at ADA. On-the-job
verbal instructions sufficed, taking less than a day for explanations
and individual run-through of procedure. The workhorse transmitter
at ADA in the 1950s was the BC-339, 1 KW RF output using a
pair of 833 triodes in the final amplifier. Yes, "neutralization" was
required to be observed on the 339 and all the others. Not a problem.
Not a "test subject" nor were there any "legal requirements."

Since those days long ago, I was given job responsibility to DESIGN
and prototype RF power amplifiers and power sources WITHOUT
any formal testing and WITHOUT any specific formal schooling in
such techniques. At the same time, I was REQUIRED to obey the
current laws on RF emission technical standards for the particular
radio application. Solid-state technology and techniques can be
remarkably DIFFERENT from vacuum tube technology and
techniques.

In the intervening years, FCC has trusted me (and almost every other ham from
those days who hasn't lost interest) to keep current with amateur radio.

Try reviewing FCC regulations a bit closer, senior. FCC REQUIRES
you (and all others) to emit RF WITHIN technical regulations. That
INCLUDES whatever has become "current" resulting from changes
since an operator was licensed.

REQUIREMENT. BY LAW. Enforced by United States peace officers,
trial and imprisonment possible.

FCC
has renewed almost all of our licenses without question, and we're allowed to
use those new modes and technologies even though we've never passed any tests
on them.

Lucky you. Now, what was your point (if any)?

If FCC trusts us OTs to learn as we go, why not the new folks?

FCC "trusts" (actually entrusts) the VEC QPC to come up with
questions and answers for the amateur radio license tests. Those
tests apply to ALL ages.

I'll challenge ANY of the old-timers to "learn as they go." That's
what I've done, successfully, during my whole career in radio
and electronics. Some of those same old-timers are still anal
retentive on retention of a morse code test in a radio service
that is basically an avocational and recreational activity. I'd say
those anal retentive old-timers are resisting learning because
they CANNOT learn as they go.

LHA