Cecil Moore wrote:

[snip]

Some people on this newsgroup say that the wave reflection
model is invalid, that forward and reflected waves don't
have a separate existence. From QEX: "Contrary to popular
views, the forward and reverse waves on a transmission line
are not separate fields." It would follow that a laser beam
normally incident upon an ideal mirror results in a beam of
light not superposed from separate forward and reverse fields.

I have challenged people holding those concepts to create a
standing wave without superposing separate forward and
reverse waves and have gotten zero responses.

Cecil,

I believe Dan has addressed this issue, and I am sure that I have on
many occasions.

When superposition applies, as it does in this linear, non-pathological
case, there is no difference between the reality of the components vs.
the reality of the sum. In other words, there is no more information
from your separation of a standing wave into forward and reverse
components than there is in the standing wave itself.

The standing wave is a perfectly good and complete solution to the wave
equations applicable to this steady-state problem. It is possible to
sub-divide in many ways, but there is no new information in doing so.

If you want to specifically address transients then another set of
equations will be needed.


ad hominem

You have railed against seduction by math models on many occasions.
However, that is exactly what you are doing here. Trying to create some
new physical reality by manipulating the numbers.

/ad hominem

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Gene Fuller wrote:
When superposition applies, as it does in this linear, non-pathological
case, there is no difference between the reality of the components vs.
the reality of the sum.

I accept both methods of analysis. What I object to is people
rejecting the wave reflection model. e.g. "Reflected waves
don't really exist and don't really contain any energy."
As in the earlier discussion about standing wave phase, you
and I wind up on the same side of the argument.

What I object to is the irrational conclusions drawn by proponents
of the standing wave analysis. Here are some of the past assertions:

Forward waves and reflected waves cease to exist after they have
been superposed. The standing wave is all that is left.

Question: If the components of superposition cease to exist,
doesn't that mean the products of superposition also cease to
exist? (No answer)

Standing waves don't require a forward wave and a reflected wave.

Question: How does one obtain a standing wave without a forward
traveling wave and a reverse traveling wave? (No answer)

You have railed against seduction by math models on many occasions.

I have railed against the assertions that superposition destroys
forward and reflected waves such that they cease to exist in reality.
From a recent QEX article: "I wish to emphasize the fact that the
forward and reverse waves really do not exist separately, ..."

So I ask you, Gene, if forward waves and reverse waves do not
exist separately, how can they possibly be superposed? Seems to me,
the above statement from QEX is a violation of cause and effect.

If forward waves and reverse waves do not exist separately, how
can they possibly be separated by a circulator?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp