On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 10:54:20 +0000, Cecil Moore wrote:

NILS BÖRJESSON wrote:
[quoted text muted]

Many experiments have proved that empty space is not empty. "A rose by any
other name ..."

Did your radios stop working? ;-)

Barnard Peters wrote:
Cecil Moore wrote:
Many experiments have proved that empty space is not empty. "A rose by any
other name ..."

Did your radios stop working? ;-)

They *would* stop working if empty space were really
empty. Call it what you will, "aether" or something
else. Radio waves cannot propagate through absolute
nothing. There really *is* something there. The
assumptions about the characteristics of aether were
wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Barnard Peters wrote:

Cecil Moore wrote:

Many experiments have proved that empty space is not empty. "A rose
by any
other name ..."


Did your radios stop working? ;-)


They *would* stop working if empty space were really
empty. Call it what you will, "aether" or something
else. Radio waves cannot propagate through absolute
nothing. There really *is* something there. The
assumptions about the characteristics of aether were
wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist.


Cecil, when I first started reading this group, I gained a lot of respect
for you. As time went by, I even tried to justify some of your arguments and
adopt them as my own. Some were successful, some were not.

As more time went by, I lost a lot of the respect I had for you. I think it
was because I became more educated.

Now you make the statement above. Dammit! Have you not heard of the
Michelson-Morley experiment? Does it mean nothing to you?

Bye.

John

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:48:06 GMT, John - KD5YI
wrote:

Now you make the statement above. Dammit! Have you not heard of the
Michelson-Morley experiment? Does it mean nothing to you?

Hi John,

In those same years of declining respect, you should have noticed that
indignation counts for no more than logic nor historical precedent.

Dark matter (and Dark energy) is something I've been on about here for
a number of years, and the scientific community estimates it
constitutes a significant portion to the bulk of the Universe - I
don't recall their last guess (it is variable, certainly), but it
verges on 60% - 80%.

However, its presence says nothing about wave mechanics and can only
come to bear on the familiar terms of permittivity and permeability
which light (and RF) happily coexists with. If Dark matter did
interfere such that it offered an Æther, it would, of course conform
to your and our understanding of Michelson-Morley that it must offset
the speed. That, or it is always neutral. Now, Dark matter being
neutral necessarily invalidates its state of being an Æther.

Cap'n Jack
"Helmsman, why aren't we making progress?"

Davy Jonz
"No wind skipper"

Cap'n Jack
"Nonsense, 80% of atmosphere is air!"

Davy Jonz
"Beggin' your pardon, skipper, but It wouldn't seem to be the 80%
that is behind our sails, sir."

Cap'n Jack
"The cat of tall-tales against your back for such bilge, sailor.
Your assumptions about the characteristics of wind are
wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and we should be
moving!"

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:48:06 GMT, John - KD5YI
wrote:


Now you make the statement above. Dammit! Have you not heard of the
Michelson-Morley experiment? Does it mean nothing to you?


Hi John,

In those same years of declining respect, you should have noticed that
indignation counts for no more than logic nor historical precedent.

Dark matter (and Dark energy) is something I've been on about here for
a number of years, and the scientific community estimates it
constitutes a significant portion to the bulk of the Universe - I
don't recall their last guess (it is variable, certainly), but it
verges on 60% - 80%.

However, its presence says nothing about wave mechanics and can only
come to bear on the familiar terms of permittivity and permeability
which light (and RF) happily coexists with. If Dark matter did
interfere such that it offered an Æther, it would, of course conform
to your and our understanding of Michelson-Morley that it must offset
the speed. That, or it is always neutral. Now, Dark matter being
neutral necessarily invalidates its state of being an Æther.

Cap'n Jack
"Helmsman, why aren't we making progress?"

Davy Jonz
"No wind skipper"

Cap'n Jack
"Nonsense, 80% of atmosphere is air!"

Davy Jonz
"Beggin' your pardon, skipper, but It wouldn't seem to be the 80%
that is behind our sails, sir."

Cap'n Jack
"The cat of tall-tales against your back for such bilge, sailor.
Your assumptions about the characteristics of wind are
wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and we should be
moving!"

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC


Hi, Richard -

Did you say something relevant?

73,
John

John - KD5YI wrote:
Richard Clark wrote:

On Sun, 10 Sep 2006 22:48:06 GMT, John - KD5YI
wrote:


Now you make the statement above. Dammit! Have you not heard of the
Michelson-Morley experiment? Does it mean nothing to you?



Hi John,

In those same years of declining respect, you should have noticed that
indignation counts for no more than logic nor historical precedent.

Dark matter (and Dark energy) is something I've been on about here for
a number of years, and the scientific community estimates it
constitutes a significant portion to the bulk of the Universe - I
don't recall their last guess (it is variable, certainly), but it
verges on 60% - 80%.
However, its presence says nothing about wave mechanics and can only
come to bear on the familiar terms of permittivity and permeability
which light (and RF) happily coexists with. If Dark matter did
interfere such that it offered an Æther, it would, of course conform
to your and our understanding of Michelson-Morley that it must offset
the speed. That, or it is always neutral. Now, Dark matter being
neutral necessarily invalidates its state of being an Æther.

Cap'n Jack
"Helmsman, why aren't we making progress?"

Davy Jonz
"No wind skipper"

Cap'n Jack
"Nonsense, 80% of atmosphere is air!"

Davy Jonz
"Beggin' your pardon, skipper, but It wouldn't seem to be the 80%
that is behind our sails, sir."

Cap'n Jack
"The cat of tall-tales against your back for such bilge, sailor.
Your assumptions about the characteristics of wind are
wrong but that doesn't mean it doesn't exist and we should be
moving!"

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC



Hi, Richard -

Did you say something relevant?

73,
John

Relatively speaking, I think he did.

John - KD5YI wrote:
Now you make the statement above. Dammit! Have you not heard of the
Michelson-Morley experiment? Does it mean nothing to you?

Michelson-Morley didn't know about relativity and quantum
mechanics. Things have changed. Space is NOT empty. Mass
has been created from empty space. Particles have been
detected winking in and out of existence in empty space.

Methinks you have fallen into the trap of thinking that man
has discovered all the knowledge there is to be discovered.
Almost everything you think you know as true will be proved
false in the next 1000 years.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:

Almost everything you think you know as true will be proved
false in the next 1000 years.

Especially if you're Howard Dean. :-)

de AC6XG