Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 23:01:06 GMT, Cecil Moore
wrote:


I have a spray can of NAPA MAC'S Silicone spray. It says:
"Waterproofs and Insulates". I've got a thunderstorm on
the way and just sprayed about 2 feet of my 450 ohm ladder-
line with it. I'll see if I can tell where the silicone
spray is and if it has any visible effect on the water.


I would suspect that any oil or wax compounds would be a tad sticky
and may, over time, accumulate more dust on the surface. That, in
turn, could in be a good rooting medium for moss and/or mildew to
form?

By the way I did spray my ladder line with silicone spray when I
originally put it up.


Aha! I was troubled with how you got mold or moss or anything to stick
to PE. I believe you are correct in your suspicions. One of PE's main
draws is it's inertness, and it is a real bear trying to get anything to
adhere to it. There is some possibility that the spray may have
contributed to what appears to be pitting on the line.

Certainly something troubles me with the idea that we can test
something under conditions where we apply chemistry to alter a
fundamental property of the material. (I'm referring to the wetting
agent tests) I believe that the tests do show adequately how ladder line
performs when covered with wetting agent and water. And that we don't
want to do that! ;^)

- 73 de mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:12 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Aha! I was troubled with how you got mold or moss or anything to stick
to PE. I believe you are correct in your suspicions. One of PE's main
draws is it's inertness, and it is a real bear trying to get anything to
adhere to it. There is some possibility that the spray may have
contributed to what appears to be pitting on the line.

Certainly something troubles me with the idea that we can test
something under conditions where we apply chemistry to alter a
fundamental property of the material. (I'm referring to the wetting
agent tests) I believe that the tests do show adequately how ladder line
performs when covered with wetting agent and water. And that we don't
want to do that! ;^)

- 73 de mike KB3EIA -

Well Mike, along my experience with ladder line there is also Roy's
and Wes's measurements. Based upon that, for me, I'm off the stuff.

My present open line setup is appears to be working fine. No
detectable moss, mildew or anything else that I can detect.

One can go on forever trying to justify one way or the other, but thus
far, wet ladder or ribbon line has shown not to be the best route to
go - from three different sources. If you have something to the
contrary I certainly would be interested in hearing about it.

To each his own.

Danny, K6MHE

Danny Richardson wrote:
Well Mike, along my experience with ladder line there is also Roy's
and Wes's measurements. Based upon that, for me, I'm off the stuff.

Here in East Texas it rains much less than 1% of the
time. Rain is more often than not accompanied by lightning
during which my antenna is unplugged. Wet ladder-line is
just not a problem at my QTH especially since the only
horizontal portion of the run is under the eaves of my house
sheltered from the rain. The only portion exposed to the rain
is vertical and is usually being whipped dry by the wind.

But what about the water collected on the antenna wire itself?
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:12 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:


Aha! I was troubled with how you got mold or moss or anything to stick
to PE. I believe you are correct in your suspicions. One of PE's main
draws is it's inertness, and it is a real bear trying to get anything to
adhere to it. There is some possibility that the spray may have
contributed to what appears to be pitting on the line.

Certainly something troubles me with the idea that we can test
something under conditions where we apply chemistry to alter a
fundamental property of the material. (I'm referring to the wetting
agent tests) I believe that the tests do show adequately how ladder line
performs when covered with wetting agent and water. And that we don't
want to do that! ;^)

- 73 de mike KB3EIA -


Well Mike, along my experience with ladder line there is also Roy's
and Wes's measurements. Based upon that, for me, I'm off the stuff.

No problem Danny, although I'm not going to accept argument upon
authority. I give some extra weight to Roy and Wes's arguments, but
won't accept the arguments just because they say it's so. Should I?

My present open line setup is appears to be working fine. No
detectable moss, mildew or anything else that I can detect.

And I'll bet you didn't put anything on it?


One can go on forever trying to justify one way or the other, but thus
far, wet ladder or ribbon line has shown not to be the best route to
go - from three different sources. If you have something to the
contrary I certainly would be interested in hearing about it.

You coated your line with something it shouldn't have had on it. The
other line was coated with wetting agent, which some of us might think
was an artificial substance to be coating it with.

We can draw lessons from all this.


To each his own.

Indeed!

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:05:48 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:12 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:


Aha! I was troubled with how you got mold or moss or anything to stick
to PE. I believe you are correct in your suspicions. One of PE's main
draws is it's inertness, and it is a real bear trying to get anything to
adhere to it. There is some possibility that the spray may have
contributed to what appears to be pitting on the line.

Certainly something troubles me with the idea that we can test
something under conditions where we apply chemistry to alter a
fundamental property of the material. (I'm referring to the wetting
agent tests) I believe that the tests do show adequately how ladder line
performs when covered with wetting agent and water. And that we don't
want to do that! ;^)

- 73 de mike KB3EIA -


Well Mike, along my experience with ladder line there is also Roy's
and Wes's measurements. Based upon that, for me, I'm off the stuff.

No problem Danny, although I'm not going to accept argument upon
authority. I give some extra weight to Roy and Wes's arguments, but
won't accept the arguments just because they say it's so. Should I?

My present open line setup is appears to be working fine. No
detectable moss, mildew or anything else that I can detect.

And I'll bet you didn't put anything on it?

Don't have to. Moss won't grow on copper oxide. In fact, we add copper
flashing to the peaks of our roof line to prevent moss growth on the
shingles.


One can go on forever trying to justify one way or the other, but thus
far, wet ladder or ribbon line has shown not to be the best route to
go - from three different sources. If you have something to the
contrary I certainly would be interested in hearing about it.

You coated your line with something it shouldn't have had on it.

How do you know this? What proof do you have for that statement?


The other line was coated with wetting agent, which some of us might think
was an artificial substance to be coating it with.

I'm not going to defend Wes here but do you really feel for a moment
that a couple drops of detergent soap to a gallon or two of water
would really make that much difference? My gwad, what about salt
spray, pollen and dust accumulated on my line?

I noted that it was stated (in an earlier posting on this thread) that
I had used an unauthorized procedure. Pray tell just who do I contact
to get necessary authorization - EPA, OSHA, or?? I just took the
advise of the supplier who recommended for those living is a wet area
(like me) to coat the line with car wax, spray it with pledge or a
silicon spray - I choose the latter. Something wrong taking the advise
of someone experienced with the product?

Are you by chance a government employee?

I do wonder if you have any experience living in an area such as mine
because if you did you would know that here on the northern California
coast we have a lot of rain (over 65" last year). Coupled with that I
live about ½-mile from the ocean and also have a lot of heavy marine
fog. Here the three Ms (moss, mildew and mushrooms) grow very well
indeed.

{An aside: Roy, if you're reading this no comment about the fourth M.}

If you don't want to give any creditability to what happen to me -
fine. Or if you believe through the miracle of applying silicon spray
makes moss grow where otherwise it wouldn't - that's fine too.

Danny, K6MHE

Danny Richardson wrote:
On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 19:05:48 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:


Danny Richardson wrote:

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 20:58:12 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:



Aha! I was troubled with how you got mold or moss or anything to stick
to PE. I believe you are correct in your suspicions. One of PE's main
draws is it's inertness, and it is a real bear trying to get anything to
adhere to it. There is some possibility that the spray may have
contributed to what appears to be pitting on the line.

Certainly something troubles me with the idea that we can test
something under conditions where we apply chemistry to alter a
fundamental property of the material. (I'm referring to the wetting
agent tests) I believe that the tests do show adequately how ladder line
performs when covered with wetting agent and water. And that we don't
want to do that! ;^)

- 73 de mike KB3EIA -


Well Mike, along my experience with ladder line there is also Roy's
and Wes's measurements. Based upon that, for me, I'm off the stuff.

No problem Danny, although I'm not going to accept argument upon
authority. I give some extra weight to Roy and Wes's arguments, but
won't accept the arguments just because they say it's so. Should I?


My present open line setup is appears to be working fine. No
detectable moss, mildew or anything else that I can detect.

And I'll bet you didn't put anything on it?


Don't have to. Moss won't grow on copper oxide. In fact, we add copper
flashing to the peaks of our roof line to prevent moss growth on the
shingles.

How about the insulators?




One can go on forever trying to justify one way or the other, but thus
far, wet ladder or ribbon line has shown not to be the best route to
go - from three different sources. If you have something to the
contrary I certainly would be interested in hearing about it.


You coated your line with something it shouldn't have had on it.


How do you know this? What proof do you have for that statement?



The other line was coated with wetting agent, which some of us might think
was an artificial substance to be coating it with.


I'm not going to defend Wes here but do you really feel for a moment
that a couple drops of detergent soap to a gallon or two of water
would really make that much difference? My gwad, what about salt
spray, pollen and dust accumulated on my line?

First, we are talking about two different things here.


Thing one:


Ladder line grows moss - or whatever you had growing on your line.


Thing two:


Ladder line shows some significant loss when wetted.



When you try to combine the two, you can make my points look pretty
silly. But I'm not saying that putting wetting agent makes moss grow on
ladder line. I don't think I ever said that.

On the other hand, PE is a Thermoplastic. And as such, there are things
that can have an effect on it that might allow opportunistic life forms
to grow on it.



I noted that it was stated (in an earlier posting on this thread) that
I had used an unauthorized procedure. Pray tell just who do I contact
to get necessary authorization - EPA, OSHA, or?

Okay Danny. I see I have to wordsmith with ya. Forgive me if I get a
little long winded here. When we have to be exact, it can get that way.


I apologize for using the term "approved". You applied a substance to
the polyethylene (or polythene for our friends across the pond)coating
on the twinlead, that under certain circumstances may have caused a
chemical change in the polyethylene. It is possible that the silicone
spray that you applied may have contained such a substance. I don't
know, because you didn't disclose the brand. One might look up the
brand's MSDS to see what the product contained.


I just took the
advise of the supplier who recommended for those living is a wet area
(like me) to coat the line with car wax, spray it with pledge or a
silicon spray - I choose the latter. Something wrong taking the advise
of someone experienced with the product?

Sometimes there is.

Are you by chance a government employee?





I do wonder if you have any experience living in an area such as mine
because if you did you would know that here on the northern California
coast we have a lot of rain (over 65" last year). Coupled with that I
live about ½-mile from the ocean and also have a lot of heavy marine
fog. Here the three Ms (moss, mildew and mushrooms) grow very well
indeed.

I spent some months on the west side of Puget sound some years ago.
Wasn't a ham then.



{An aside: Roy, if you're reading this no comment about the fourth M.}



If you don't want to give any creditability to what happen to me -
fine. Or if you believe through the miracle of applying silicon spray
makes moss grow where otherwise it wouldn't - that's fine too.


Sigh..... I just think that you may have done something that
inadvertently contributed to the problem. Maybe yes, maybe no.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Sun, 24 Sep 2006 21:19:54 -0400, Mike Coslo
wrote:
[snip a whole buch of stuff]

Sigh..... I just think that you may have done something that
inadvertently contributed to the problem. Maybe yes, maybe no.

Mike,

I'm bowing out. Just too many " it may"s and " it is possible"s for
me.

Congratulations! Written as a excellent candidate for a government
job.

73,
Danny, K6MHE