Hmmmm
They said that the idea of break dancing was an impossibility but they have
classes for same in East St Louis Students are not allowed to graduate
until thay exhibit the ability of removing a hub cap off of a moving vehicle
!
They probably have the same class in The Goebals
Regards
Art



"Brian Howie" wrote in message
...
In message , Art Unwin
KB9MZ writes

Antenna engineers have become so focussed on the half
wave patterns that they have completely ignored the
low efficiency portions at the ends of a half wave
antenna.

Yes, the midldle high current bit generates the H field, but you forget
that the end high voltage bits are needed to generate the E field. The
antenna 1/4 wave physical length is needed to get these in the correct
phase.

Now it should be possible to make a compact antenna where you can
generate the H field from a current element and the electric field from
a voltage element, making sure that the 1/4 phasing is preserved between
the voltage and current. Naah it wouldn't work

Brian GM4DIJ

--
Brian Howie

Art,

You just received two serious and legitimate responses from Tom and Brian. You
proceeded to trash each of them for their contributions.

How do you expect to get useful input if you are not willing to accept anything
that does not agree with your preconceived notions?

YOU are the one with the loaded pea shooter.

Shame on you!

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Hmmmm
They said that the idea of break dancing was an impossibility but they have
classes for same in East St Louis Students are not allowed to graduate
until thay exhibit the ability of removing a hub cap off of a moving vehicle
!
They probably have the same class in The Goebals
Regards
Art

Gene I suspect your Google has yet to be updated
but if not look up Tom's responses to me just for this month. As for Brian I
did not trash him ! I think he said at the end it was impossible ! I suspect
you are a new person on this newsgroup so I suppose one has to accept such
statements and not take to much notice of such bland conclusions.......Now
do you have anything to contribute?
Regards
Art

"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Art,

You just received two serious and legitimate responses from Tom and Brian.
You
proceeded to trash each of them for their contributions.

How do you expect to get useful input if you are not willing to accept
anything
that does not agree with your preconceived notions?

YOU are the one with the loaded pea shooter.

Shame on you!

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Hmmmm
They said that the idea of break dancing was an impossibility but they
have
classes for same in East St Louis Students are not allowed to graduate
until thay exhibit the ability of removing a hub cap off of a moving
vehicle
!
They probably have the same class in The Goebals
Regards
Art

Art wrote,

Gene I suspect your Google has yet to be updated
but if not look up Tom's responses to me just for this month.


What responses? I don't normally respond to your posts, Art.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Gene,
Brian is a fellow Brit why would I trash a fellow 'G'
Come to think of it why are you trashing me when you contributed nothing ?
Just try to get along and you are home free
Art

"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Art,

You just received two serious and legitimate responses from Tom and Brian.
You
proceeded to trash each of them for their contributions.

How do you expect to get useful input if you are not willing to accept
anything
that does not agree with your preconceived notions?

YOU are the one with the loaded pea shooter.

Shame on you!

73,
Gene
W4SZ

Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:
Hmmmm
They said that the idea of break dancing was an impossibility but they
have
classes for same in East St Louis Students are not allowed to graduate
until thay exhibit the ability of removing a hub cap off of a moving
vehicle
!
They probably have the same class in The Goebals
Regards
Art

Art,

OK, here is my contribution.

Short antennas are quite thoroughly understood. Most of the analytical
treatments of antenna theory I have seen start with short dipoles and then
expand to longer dipoles and other types of antennas.

There have been any number of segmented antennas proposed and built, including
multiple trap antennas, multiple capacitor antennas, curtain antennas, fractal
antennas, and so on. Do you have some new idea that has not already been tried?

Short antennas radiate just fine, IF one can feed the power into the antenna and
avoid losing too much to non-radiative losses.

It has already been pointed out that all parts of a dipole antenna contribute to
the radiation. Sure, it is possible to shorten the antenna and even maintain the
same total radiated power. However, the pattern will change and the antenna may
become more difficult to feed.

It is not clear what issue you find with Yagi antennas. Keep in mind that it is
unlikely that one can achieve high directionality and gain from an antenna with
a size that is a tiny fraction of the wavelength. This is the case for radio
waves, optics, or any other wave phenomena. The reason people choose to use
large Yagi antennas is gain, not efficiency or cost.

Soooo, the bottom line is that there are large antennas, and there are small
antennas. Different applications favor one type over others.

Do you expect to develop some new antenna design concepts or even some new
science? If the former, then the field is well-plowed, even if it is
theoretically still infinite. If the latter, well, good luck.

73,
Gene
W4SZ


Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:

Gene,
Brian is a fellow Brit why would I trash a fellow 'G'
Come to think of it why are you trashing me when you contributed nothing ?
Just try to get along and you are home free
Art

"Gene Fuller" wrote in message
...
Art,

OK, here is my contribution.

Short antennas are quite thoroughly understood.
Yes but all knoweledge obtained has not been utilised
or consideredin this area even tho the use of this knoweledge is considered
beforehand as useless.


Most of the analytical
treatments of antenna theory I have seen start with short dipoles and then
expand to longer dipoles and other types of antennas.

There have been any number of segmented antennas proposed and built,
including
multiple trap antennas, multiple capacitor antennas, curtain antennas,
fractal
antennas, and so on. Do you have some new idea that has not already been
tried?
Yes, you may well want to look at some old antenna patents of mine, I wrote
them up myself in a way I thought the patent office wanted it and then they
changed the hell out of it but I think the drawings I made should be enough
for anybody to follow. Some locals built them from the same drawings.
They are not considered valid by the gurus associated with this group.



Short antennas radiate just fine, IF one can feed the power into the
antenna and
avoid losing too much to non-radiative losses.
Exactly, a receiving antenna that many use can not be transmitted on where
as mine is a perfect match that are as good as say a beverage in terms of
gain yet are only a smidgeon of it's length.

It has already been pointed out that all parts of a dipole antenna
contribute to
the radiation. Sure, it is possible to shorten the antenna and even
maintain the
same total radiated power.
Good thinking
However, the pattern will change and the antenna may
become more difficult to feed. But what if the match is a perfect one?

It is not clear what issue you find with Yagi antennas. Keep in mind that
it is
unlikely that one can achieve high directionality and gain from an antenna
with
a size that is a tiny fraction of the wavelength.

Unlikely but I have done it!

This is the case for radio
waves, optics, or any other wave phenomena. The reason people choose to
use
large Yagi antennas is gain, not efficiency or cost.

Well my last yagi ( 20 metres )I built had a boom length of 80 feet if I
remember wrightly with 13 elements two of which were reflectors. After that
antenna I decided to devote time to small antennas of a type that has not
been written up before that are mathematically proven, duplicated by a pro
computor program and of course used by me on various frequencies albiet not
very often..
Some of the antennas broke over the years but were easily duplicated.

Soooo, the bottom line is that there are large antennas, and there are
small
antennas. Different applications favor one type over others.

Do you expect to develop some new antenna design concepts or even some new
science? If the former, then the field is well-plowed, even if it is
theoretically still infinite. If the latter, well, good luck.

Thank you but one never gets to the end..It is also hard to believe the new
when over the years so many people have made false claims which makes it
relatively safe to call all new claims as bogus and the claiment is a lier.
When I had to fill out papers to come to this country I was asked what my
rank was in the boy scouts,had I eve
committed adultery and several other penetrating questions. I would suggest
it would be rather odd if a lying pattern started only after I arrived in
this country and after I retired from G.E. but I suppose it could happen.
Art

73,
Gene
W4SZ


Art Unwin KB9MZ wrote:

Gene,
Brian is a fellow Brit why would I trash a fellow 'G'
Come to think of it why are you trashing me when you contributed nothing
?
Just try to get along and you are home free
Art

"I would suggest
it would be rather odd if a lying pattern started only after I
arrived in
this country and after I retired from G.E. but I suppose it
could happen."

.... No, I won't do it. It would be just too easy...
'Doc