Volker, good luck with the bureaucratic guantlet you're running.

The only commercially-available vertical(s) I'm aware of that would meet
your described needs are the Butternut, and the GAP. Butternut can be used
with either shortened radials, or none at al; you will of course, see
reduced, but acceptable performance. The GAP vertical uses a set of
"counterpoises", of a length shorther than for normal radials. They're both
worth investigation.

73,
Mike KI6PR

"Volker Kerkhoff" wrote
Now to what it comes... B License would give me the well known operating
privileges on 80, 40, 15 and 10 Mts. Well, to "start on a budget" and
since I will need to buy new rig (a used market is unexistant in Spain,
most guys selling on Ebay will not ship here and not be able to provide
an official bill) and your rig (unless full homebrew) REQUIRES a
CE-Certificate here in Spain.

The pount is that our rooftop is only 19 x 15 Meters. Make the numbers
for a half-wawe dipole for 80 Mts (or even 40) and it does not fit. I
could maybe pull a half-wave for 40Mts diagonally across the roof, but I
would then not be able to comply with the mandatory 3 Mts distance to
the TV antenna.

So I looked into alternatives. The G5RV for 40-10 Mts would fit on
either sides of the roof (Actually, and since they are rather cheap, I
plan on installing two, one N-S and one E-W, Since I plan to work both
Africa (southwards) and Europe (the Alps would be in a "blank" on my
"E-W"-Dipole)

The point is that I'd be missing an antenna for 80 mts, a band that
actually interest me more that 20 Mts and above, because I'l mostly be
working at night. The idea was to put up a vertical, but I am a bit
confused about the requirement for a ground. (Besides the fact that the
whole building does not have a ground) I don't think the rooftop counts
as adecuate radio ground for a vertical, right? If I take one with
radials, especially for that band I'm in trouble with the 3 Mts from the
TV antenna again, especially with the radials, or I have to put up a
pole or turret providing at least 5 Mts vertical separation, which would
be asides from expensive, because I'd need to built a foundation for it,
provide additional suspension cords (not needed with the dipoles)

So, what are my options here? Anyone has an idea for a widely available
commercial solution, for 80 Mts or multiband with limited space
requirements? The only other option I've come across is the Watson
Plus80-2, but it seems to perform a lot worse than the G5RV or most
verticals.

Thanks, and best regards to all,

Volker

Mikey wrote:
Volker, good luck with the bureaucratic guantlet you're running.

Yep, but others have done it before, since this new law came out in 1987
(and it has not been reviewed since). Actually a rework is due after a
new general telecommunications law came out last year, but I guess
that'll be another 6 months at least. 6 months I can hardly wait, I
actually don't know how I've been able to wait for almost 20 years since
I came of legal age to get a license...

The only commercially-available vertical(s) I'm aware of that would meet
your described needs are the Butternut, and the GAP. Butternut can be used
with either shortened radials, or none at al; you will of course, see
reduced, but acceptable performance. The GAP vertical uses a set of
"counterpoises", of a length shorther than for normal radials. They're both
worth investigation.

Thanks a lot... Local ham shops in a city like Barcelona are really not
up to it, I doubt they have a licensed amateur around, and want to sell
the most expensive stuff... Although the two antennas you mention are
not really cheap...

Another idea would have been to cover up to 40 mts with a G5VR, and then
put up a yagi for 80 mts, to keep the expense in turret and rotor within
certain limits... What about that? I understand that the G5RV loses a
lot of directionality when mounted an an inverted V, so I migh get away
with just one of them?

73,

Volker