I'd like to add a question.

Why, instead of trying to get the Windows program developers to spend
countless hours developing programs for the minuscule Linux market,
don't the Linux users spend a little time getting Wine to work properly?
If it seems to simple to port programs to Linux, why is it so hard to
get open-source Wine to work?

Roy Lewallen, W7EL

Roy Lewallen wrote:
I'd like to add a question.

Why, instead of trying to get the Windows program developers to spend
countless hours developing programs for the minuscule Linux market,
don't the Linux users spend a little time getting Wine to work properly?
If it seems to simple to port programs to Linux, why is it so hard to
get open-source Wine to work?


I have a computer with Linux installed. Perhaps I is a dummy, but even
just installing programs, or searching for drivers is a nuisance. I'm
always told how such and such flavor of Linux doesn't have that problem,
but I'm on flavor number three, and still waiting for I don't have
enough experience in it to make a firm judgement, but I think we are
supposed to be happy if the operating system and hardware just works,
let alone the software.

Awaiting my one-way trip to Linux hell for what I just wrote....

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 11:16:13 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Awaiting my one-way trip to Linux hell for what I just wrote....

Hi Mike,

Did you purchase your ticket through Red Hat or Suse's vendor support
for a fee? Or did you roll your own for free?

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Richard Clark wrote:
On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 11:16:13 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:


Awaiting my one-way trip to Linux hell for what I just wrote....


Hi Mike,

Did you purchase your ticket through Red Hat or Suse's vendor support
for a fee? Or did you roll your own for free?


Rolling my own here Richard. Started out with Turbolinux, then another
I'm afraid to say I forget the distro, and now have Fedora. I'm told
SuSE is wonderful - and I was told that of the other flavors too. So I'm
a little skeptical by now.

Problems have been with installing software, hardware incompatibility,
Internet connectivity - nothing like having to spend time looking for
drivers - going to bbs's - eventually I found out that my wireless card
simply wasn't supported AT ALL! That was special.

I'm still hoping to find a flavor of Linux that won't give me indigestion.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Sat, 04 Nov 2006 13:28:47 -0500, Mike Coslo
wrote:

Rolling my own here Richard. Started out with Turbolinux, then another
I'm afraid to say I forget the distro, and now have Fedora. I'm told
SuSE is wonderful - and I was told that of the other flavors too. So I'm
a little skeptical by now.

Hi Mike,

I've traveled the same path over the years. About a year ago I wrote
a step-by-step guide for installing Fedora into a cold, bare machine.
I also wrote a step-by-step guide for building servers (Apache/MySQL
and the rest); and then followed up with a step-by-step guide for
specialized application servers, Wikis and CMS packages. Of late I
have also ventured into RubyOnRails with another a step-by-step guide.

Problems have been with installing software, hardware incompatibility,
Internet connectivity - nothing like having to spend time looking for
drivers - going to bbs's - eventually I found out that my wireless card
simply wasn't supported AT ALL! That was special.

Hint: Support for "special" costs. Yeah, cold comfort - sorry.

I'm still hoping to find a flavor of Linux that won't give me indigestion.

Try Rolaids, or pay for support by buying into a vendor with a good
reputation (you already indicate you know several).

Almost every connectivity and configuration issue I researched was
answered through a google newsgroup search, and then going to the
links offered in their discussion. I presume you've already mined
that approach. I have periods of this idle time, like now, that allow
me to research these issues interspersed with intense demand for my
attention. I also make it a habit to keep a journal in a nearly
publish quality format. Memory (wet ram) is for the good things,
ephemeral details like Linux configuration is for filing.

I have nothing to offer for your specific driver need, sorry. However,
for others, feel free to contact me for these guides.

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC

Mike Coslo wrote:
Roy Lewallen wrote:
I'd like to add a question.

Why, instead of trying to get the Windows program developers to spend
countless hours developing programs for the minuscule Linux market,
don't the Linux users spend a little time getting Wine to work
properly? If it seems to simple to port programs to Linux, why is it
so hard to get open-source Wine to work?


I have a computer with Linux installed. Perhaps I is a dummy, but
even just installing programs, or searching for drivers is a nuisance.
I'm always told how such and such flavor of Linux doesn't have that
problem, but I'm on flavor number three, and still waiting for I don't
have enough experience in it to make a firm judgement, but I think we
are supposed to be happy if the operating system and hardware just
works, let alone the software.

Awaiting my one-way trip to Linux hell for what I just wrote....

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

Wow........when I posted back about phasing verticals and my questions
were answered by Roy, I mentioned sort of half hardily that I would
have to use Windows to run EZNEC. Looks like my post took on a life of
it's own. I'm what you can call a "Joe sixpack" when it comes to a
computer and I have found the latest distributions of Fedora, SUSE, or
Ubuntu to install and find all my drivers and hardware without a hitch.
The finished install will give you a system that will be able to surf
the Internet, do E-mail, chat with your buddy's on an IM if that is your
bag. comes with a fine office suite, photo imaging software etc.

The only drawback is propriety stuff such as multimedia programs etc.
That stuff is available but it has to be installed later and that's
where the "one-way trip to Linux Hell" begins for the first timer.
although now even that is becoming point and click with the latest
distros out there. I boot 4 different flavors plus Windows on one computer.

For those that want to give Linux a try for the first time my advice is
to install it on a separate computer just for Linux. It behaves nice on
a Windows box, but if you are not somewhat familiar with partitioning
and writing to the MBR for a dual boot and getting it back to a Windows
default if you mess up, keep it on another machine.

There is plenty of help on the Web, just do a Google search for a guide
for which ever distro you have. The best part?...........with a
broadband connection you can download and install Linux in half a day or
less for FREE. check out http://distrowatch.com/ and pick your poison.

This is not quite on topic for antennas, so excuse my rant on Linux. For
me it's great, for you, maybe not. It's not Windows and I hope it never
is. It's a Unix type system like a Mac, with a hell of a lot less worry
about viruses and spyware.

John / K1BXI

John Phillips wrote:
Mike Coslo wrote:

Roy Lewallen wrote:

I'd like to add a question.

Why, instead of trying to get the Windows program developers to spend
countless hours developing programs for the minuscule Linux market,
don't the Linux users spend a little time getting Wine to work
properly? If it seems to simple to port programs to Linux, why is it
so hard to get open-source Wine to work?



I have a computer with Linux installed. Perhaps I is a dummy, but
even just installing programs, or searching for drivers is a nuisance.
I'm always told how such and such flavor of Linux doesn't have that
problem, but I'm on flavor number three, and still waiting for I don't
have enough experience in it to make a firm judgement, but I think we
are supposed to be happy if the operating system and hardware just
works, let alone the software.

Awaiting my one-way trip to Linux hell for what I just wrote....

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -


Wow........when I posted back about phasing verticals and my questions
were answered by Roy, I mentioned sort of half hardily that I would
have to use Windows to run EZNEC. Looks like my post took on a life of
it's own. I'm what you can call a "Joe sixpack" when it comes to a
computer and I have found the latest distributions of Fedora, SUSE, or
Ubuntu to install and find all my drivers and hardware without a hitch.
The finished install will give you a system that will be able to surf
the Internet, do E-mail, chat with your buddy's on an IM if that is your
bag. comes with a fine office suite, photo imaging software etc.

The only drawback is propriety stuff such as multimedia programs etc.
That stuff is available but it has to be installed later and that's
where the "one-way trip to Linux Hell" begins for the first timer.
although now even that is becoming point and click with the latest
distros out there. I boot 4 different flavors plus Windows on one computer.

For those that want to give Linux a try for the first time my advice is
to install it on a separate computer just for Linux. It behaves nice on
a Windows box, but if you are not somewhat familiar with partitioning
and writing to the MBR for a dual boot and getting it back to a Windows
default if you mess up, keep it on another machine.

There is plenty of help on the Web, just do a Google search for a guide
for which ever distro you have. The best part?...........with a
broadband connection you can download and install Linux in half a day or
less for FREE. check out http://distrowatch.com/ and pick your poison.

This is not quite on topic for antennas, so excuse my rant on Linux. For
me it's great, for you, maybe not. It's not Windows and I hope it never
is. It's a Unix type system like a Mac, with a hell of a lot less worry
about viruses and spyware.

One of my biggest frustrations with Linux is that I use a Mac for most
of my work, so I know just how nice a Unix based system can be. Install
the software and use it. Period. Plug in the peripheral. Bang, there.

Only time I have to drop to command line is occasional server
maintenance, and even that is less and less often with the new Xserve
tools. My biggest complaint is permissions problems that crop up
occasionally. They are easy to solve, but a nuisance.

- 73 de Mike KB3EIA -

On Fri, 03 Nov 2006 20:22:39 -0800, Roy Lewallen
wrote:

why is it so hard to get open-source Wine to work?

Hi Roy,

Non portable design issues inherent in self-serving Microsoft
products. [This is not an aspersion on EZNEC or similar products or
vendors, it is simply the fact of life when you are tightly wed to the
Microsoft platform.]

M$ is a marketing company, not a development company. Ask any vendor
facing Vista, especially those whose Security niche market (Symantec,
McAfee) is being blind-sided.

M$ is claiming to have gotten it (Security) right this time. Of
course, this claim is indistinct from any similar claim made in any
week's press release for the past two decades. Their LATEST release
of (proprietary) Internet Explorer came complete with a feature that
allowed hackers to take over your machine. This news, too, is
indistinct from any industry weekly press release for those same
decades.

The sub-text response to your question is, "Why would Wine try to
emulate everything given this level of jeopardy?" At some point (and
as you basically offered Tom) you simply start over and do it right.
The alternative is that dedicated soul who finds their mission in
bringing down the evil empire by burrowing into every line of reverse
engineered code.

M$ and other industries think they dominate through sheer force of
numbers. One Jon Lech Johansen proved that both Hollywood and Apple
cannot summon up enough engineering head count to withstand being
whipped by a single individual. Of course, both Hollywood and Apple
relied on Marketing to do the Security issues, not their legions of
design engineers (many of whom are equal or better than Johansen).

73's
Richard Clark, KB7QHC