"art" wrote in message
ps.com...

massive snip

Art: Do you know what a blithering idiot is??? Well, you're starting to
blither pretty often.

Mike W5CHR
Memphis

Pray tell me what is it in my posting that inflamed you as a self
chosen judge
to pass judgement on me?

Mike Lucas wrote:
"art" wrote in message
ps.com...

massive snip

Art: Do you know what a blithering idiot is??? Well, you're starting to
blither pretty often.

Mike W5CHR
Memphis

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pray tell me what is it in my posting that inflamed you as a self
chosen judge
to pass judgement on me?

Mike Lucas wrote:
"art" wrote in message
ps.com...

massive snip

Art: Do you know what a blithering idiot is??? Well, you're starting to
blither pretty often.

Mike W5CHR
Memphis



Hi Art

I sure wouldnt pass judgment on you thru a news group. And I dont think
Mike should be "self appointed". So, if it ever comes to a vote, he's
getting my vote

Jerry.

Jerry, Are you concurring with his judgement that I am a blithering
idiot and he gets your vote? I find it so hard to believe that
engineers need only to read the first page of anything and determine
from that and with their perceived knowledge they can trash a complete
paper. I am trying to state things in an extremely elementary way so
that aspiring hams on the side lines can get an understanding of my
scheme of things with respect to this new antenna array aproach which
differs from that of a yagi and whose benefits I will get to later if I
am allowed to


Jerry Martes wrote:
"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Pray tell me what is it in my posting that inflamed you as a self
chosen judge
to pass judgement on me?

Mike Lucas wrote:
"art" wrote in message
ps.com...

massive snip

Art: Do you know what a blithering idiot is??? Well, you're starting to
blither pretty often.

Mike W5CHR
Memphis



Hi Art

I sure wouldnt pass judgment on you thru a news group. And I dont think
Mike should be "self appointed". So, if it ever comes to a vote, he's
getting my vote

Jerry.

"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jerry, Are you concurring with his judgement that I am a blithering
idiot and he gets your vote? I find it so hard to believe that
engineers need only to read the first page of anything and determine
from that and with their perceived knowledge they can trash a complete
paper. I am trying to state things in an extremely elementary way so
that aspiring hams on the side lines can get an understanding of my
scheme of things with respect to this new antenna array aproach which
differs from that of a yagi and whose benefits I will get to later if I
am allowed to


Hi Art

Show me some numbers and some data and I'll change my mind. I never said
that you were a blithering idiot. I am not qualified to make a statement
like that about someone I dont know. But, you do write alot of text in
which you apparently dont care about anyone being able to understand.
Blithering idiots do that too.
Please be aware, I really like real technical challenges that dont require
alot of theoretical math type proofs. But, when the challenge is to prove
you wrong (or right) about the "Efficiency" of a Yagi I'd anticipate there
would be some data (measured or calculated) coming from you. I havent seen
the data.

I too find it hard to believe that engineers (in general)need to read only
the first page of a paper in order to understand the entire text. I used to
work with alot of engineers. I really admire their ability to think
analytically. I consider engineers to be smart people , but reading only
one page of a mulitpage document then be sure the entire paper is trash. I
do believe that a perspicacious, experienced engineer has to be able to
perceive if the rest of any paper is worth reading if the first page is
written as though it was authored by a blithering idiot. Otherwise that
engineer could waste alot of valuable time.

I am not an aspiring HAM, but I once was. Now I'm an old, kinda
ignorant, HAM. They are probably quite similar. But, Art, I just have
alot of difficulty trying to understand your posts. Maybe you have a
"paper" that I could study. Tell me where I can read it. I still like to
learn new things.

My advice to you, Art, is Pay close attention to the advice of the
really good engineers that post here on this forum. If you cant identify
them, ask Richard Clark. He's one of them.

O.K. Jerry so you are having problems with me and I can understand
that.
So are you saying I should put an end to this thread before I get
deeper into a hole?
I am a nothing now tho one time I worked for G.E. as an engineer to get
a retirement pension but that is in the past because I also am old and
have the normal frailties that come with old age and where maybe I
should consider myself past it and fade away!
Many have said that so perhaps I should fade away gracefully and
continue the hobby in isolation

Jerry Martes wrote:
"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jerry, Are you concurring with his judgement that I am a blithering
idiot and he gets your vote? I find it so hard to believe that
engineers need only to read the first page of anything and determine
from that and with their perceived knowledge they can trash a complete
paper. I am trying to state things in an extremely elementary way so
that aspiring hams on the side lines can get an understanding of my
scheme of things with respect to this new antenna array aproach which
differs from that of a yagi and whose benefits I will get to later if I
am allowed to


Hi Art

Show me some numbers and some data and I'll change my mind. I never said
that you were a blithering idiot. I am not qualified to make a statement
like that about someone I dont know. But, you do write alot of text in
which you apparently dont care about anyone being able to understand.
Blithering idiots do that too.
Please be aware, I really like real technical challenges that dont require
alot of theoretical math type proofs. But, when the challenge is to prove
you wrong (or right) about the "Efficiency" of a Yagi I'd anticipate there
would be some data (measured or calculated) coming from you. I havent seen
the data.

I too find it hard to believe that engineers (in general)need to read only
the first page of a paper in order to understand the entire text. I used to
work with alot of engineers. I really admire their ability to think
analytically. I consider engineers to be smart people , but reading only
one page of a mulitpage document then be sure the entire paper is trash. I
do believe that a perspicacious, experienced engineer has to be able to
perceive if the rest of any paper is worth reading if the first page is
written as though it was authored by a blithering idiot. Otherwise that
engineer could waste alot of valuable time.

I am not an aspiring HAM, but I once was. Now I'm an old, kinda
ignorant, HAM. They are probably quite similar. But, Art, I just have
alot of difficulty trying to understand your posts. Maybe you have a
"paper" that I could study. Tell me where I can read it. I still like to
learn new things.

My advice to you, Art, is Pay close attention to the advice of the
really good engineers that post here on this forum. If you cant identify
them, ask Richard Clark. He's one of them.

Is there anybody else that is having the same problem as Jerry or is
anybody upto speed with me? May be this would be a good time to pause
so we can smooth out some of these difficulties before we move on and
thus salvage something from this new aproach to antennas



art wrote:
O.K. Jerry so you are having problems with me and I can understand
that.
So are you saying I should put an end to this thread before I get
deeper into a hole?
I am a nothing now tho one time I worked for G.E. as an engineer to get
a retirement pension but that is in the past because I also am old and
have the normal frailties that come with old age and where maybe I
should consider myself past it and fade away!
Many have said that so perhaps I should fade away gracefully and
continue the hobby in isolation

Jerry Martes wrote:
"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jerry, Are you concurring with his judgement that I am a blithering
idiot and he gets your vote? I find it so hard to believe that
engineers need only to read the first page of anything and determine
from that and with their perceived knowledge they can trash a complete
paper. I am trying to state things in an extremely elementary way so
that aspiring hams on the side lines can get an understanding of my
scheme of things with respect to this new antenna array aproach which
differs from that of a yagi and whose benefits I will get to later if I
am allowed to


Hi Art

Show me some numbers and some data and I'll change my mind. I never said
that you were a blithering idiot. I am not qualified to make a statement
like that about someone I dont know. But, you do write alot of text in
which you apparently dont care about anyone being able to understand.
Blithering idiots do that too.
Please be aware, I really like real technical challenges that dont require
alot of theoretical math type proofs. But, when the challenge is to prove
you wrong (or right) about the "Efficiency" of a Yagi I'd anticipate there
would be some data (measured or calculated) coming from you. I havent seen
the data.

I too find it hard to believe that engineers (in general)need to read only
the first page of a paper in order to understand the entire text. I used to
work with alot of engineers. I really admire their ability to think
analytically. I consider engineers to be smart people , but reading only
one page of a mulitpage document then be sure the entire paper is trash. I
do believe that a perspicacious, experienced engineer has to be able to
perceive if the rest of any paper is worth reading if the first page is
written as though it was authored by a blithering idiot. Otherwise that
engineer could waste alot of valuable time.

I am not an aspiring HAM, but I once was. Now I'm an old, kinda
ignorant, HAM. They are probably quite similar. But, Art, I just have
alot of difficulty trying to understand your posts. Maybe you have a
"paper" that I could study. Tell me where I can read it. I still like to
learn new things.

My advice to you, Art, is Pay close attention to the advice of the
really good engineers that post here on this forum. If you cant identify
them, ask Richard Clark. He's one of them.

Hi Art

Since you top post I guess it is appropriate for me to do so also. I
assume you make the comment about "fade away" without really expecting to do
so. I still want to see data, any data that applies to your statement
that Yagiis are inefficient antennas. As far as I know, you are correct
about Yagi efficiency. I have been trying to understand how it can be
determined that Yagiis are inefficient. At the beginning of this thread, I
anticipated reading some data that I could understand. I have begun to
think that data on Yagi efficiency probably doesnt exist. I encourage to
show that I'm wrong about the data.

Jerry






"art" wrote in message
ups.com...
O.K. Jerry so you are having problems with me and I can understand
that.
So are you saying I should put an end to this thread before I get
deeper into a hole?
I am a nothing now tho one time I worked for G.E. as an engineer to get
a retirement pension but that is in the past because I also am old and
have the normal frailties that come with old age and where maybe I
should consider myself past it and fade away!
Many have said that so perhaps I should fade away gracefully and
continue the hobby in isolation

Jerry Martes wrote:
"art" wrote in message
oups.com...
Jerry, Are you concurring with his judgement that I am a blithering
idiot and he gets your vote? I find it so hard to believe that
engineers need only to read the first page of anything and determine
from that and with their perceived knowledge they can trash a complete
paper. I am trying to state things in an extremely elementary way so
that aspiring hams on the side lines can get an understanding of my
scheme of things with respect to this new antenna array aproach which
differs from that of a yagi and whose benefits I will get to later if I
am allowed to


Hi Art

Show me some numbers and some data and I'll change my mind. I never
said
that you were a blithering idiot. I am not qualified to make a
statement
like that about someone I dont know. But, you do write alot of text in
which you apparently dont care about anyone being able to understand.
Blithering idiots do that too.
Please be aware, I really like real technical challenges that dont
require
alot of theoretical math type proofs. But, when the challenge is to
prove
you wrong (or right) about the "Efficiency" of a Yagi I'd anticipate
there
would be some data (measured or calculated) coming from you. I havent
seen
the data.

I too find it hard to believe that engineers (in general)need to read
only
the first page of a paper in order to understand the entire text. I used
to
work with alot of engineers. I really admire their ability to think
analytically. I consider engineers to be smart people , but reading
only
one page of a mulitpage document then be sure the entire paper is trash.
I
do believe that a perspicacious, experienced engineer has to be able to
perceive if the rest of any paper is worth reading if the first page is
written as though it was authored by a blithering idiot. Otherwise
that
engineer could waste alot of valuable time.

I am not an aspiring HAM, but I once was. Now I'm an old, kinda
ignorant, HAM. They are probably quite similar. But, Art, I just
have
alot of difficulty trying to understand your posts. Maybe you have a
"paper" that I could study. Tell me where I can read it. I still like
to
learn new things.

My advice to you, Art, is Pay close attention to the advice of the
really good engineers that post here on this forum. If you cant
identify
them, ask Richard Clark. He's one of them.

O.K. where was I
Ah, we now have in front of us where all the enclosed charges are of a
like sign.
So now visualise that you are looking at a cluster of could be
radiating elements side on and think that each charge that appears on
the surface of the enclosed border eminated somehow from a dipole
behind it
First thing to understand that behind the charge direction sign we have
a dipole which like all the other charges must be in equilibrium with
all the other charges dipoles so the first requirement is to make every
dipole resonant and since they are in cluster form the interacting
coupling effects destroy the equilibrium unless we ensure that all the
dipoles are resonant despite outher forces. To do this we ofcourse have
to adjust the lengths of each dipole such that it is still resonant
despite the positional arrangement we put them in which means the
dipooles will not be of the same length but still reonant in situ to
maiantain equilibrium. Up to now we have beenmanipulating a Gaussion
law that applies to electrostatics, a subset of electro magnetics where
in mathematical terms time must be taken into account so we have to go
back to the Gaussian field and add another tem to the Gaussian law like
" in a small space of time " or something like that. We can do this
because what Gauss found and put into mathematical form is a law not a
theorem in that it blends with laws of nature and the universe as
proven mathematically. So for an instant of time we can place the
clustered elements in a short burst of a time varying field where each
of the enclosed charges have a directional vector added to it in the
form of phase possesion
which is often times referred to as Curl if you come across that term
later. Now for equilibrium all charges must change in unison which they
will do as we made the length of elements resonant in situ. Now looking
at the Gaussian field it can be seen that for a short moment in time
each of the charges/dipole elements have formed directional mean for
the time varying charges but without breaking out from the arbitary
border or having to radiate in any way to another element. So at this
point we have a cluster of elements that have not started the process
of radiating/E.H. field generation and where by virtue of all elements
being of the same "Q' we have avoided the cumbersome job of determining
the intercoupling
forces. At this point we can say we are dealing with lumped constants
and eligable for adaptation by RLC or complex circuitry methods. I
think you will need a bit of time to absorb what I have stated before
we move on to an actual radiating array since there is more work to be
done before I get to that point.See you later


art wrote:
Pray tell me what is it in my posting that inflamed you as a self
chosen judge
to pass judgement on me?

Mike Lucas wrote:
"art" wrote in message
ps.com...

massive snip

Art: Do you know what a blithering idiot is??? Well, you're starting to
blither pretty often.

Mike W5CHR
Memphis

Art,

You'd get a lot more people who would be able to listen to what you're
saying if you drew a picture and posted it somewhere.

Dan