Wes wrote:
A nearly perfect antenna. Completely flat SWR, totally noise free and
with equal gain in all directions! What more could you ask for?

:-) How about some functionality?

Let's take a look at a G5RV that I bought when I moved
to AZ and got back into HF operation. One side of the
G5RV dipole was DC floating at the antenna tuner output
while the other side was DC grounded. During AZ desert
windstorms, this new G5RV of mine arced at the coax
connector due to precipitation static, sometimes several
times per second. Putting up a 40m folded dipole caused
the arcing to cease. Seems to me, an antenna that doesn't
arc is more functional and less noisy than an antenna
that does arc. :-) In addition, even when the wind was
not strong enough to cause arcing, the folded dipole
delivered less noise to the receiver than did the G5RV.

Folding and insulating are two methods of reducing
precipitation static in airplane antennas. The G5RV
was not folded - the folded dipole was. The G5RV was
not insulated - the folded dipole was.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Wes wrote:
A nearly perfect antenna. Completely flat SWR, totally noise free and
with equal gain in all directions! What more could you ask for?

:-) How about some functionality?

Let's take a look at a G5RV that I bought when I moved
to AZ and got back into HF operation. One side of the
G5RV dipole was DC floating at the antenna tuner output
while the other side was DC grounded. During AZ desert
windstorms, this new G5RV of mine arced at the coax
connector due to precipitation static, sometimes several
times per second.

Hmm. I've lived in AZ for over 60 years (almost 50 of them as a ham)
and am well familiar with dust storms and static build up on antennas
but I've never heard of it being called precipitation static.

Whatever you choose to call it, Roy's suggested rf choke would have
solved your problem.

Wes N7WS

Wes wrote:
Hmm. I've lived in AZ for over 60 years (almost 50 of them as a ham)
and am well familiar with dust storms and static build up on antennas
but I've never heard of it being called precipitation static.

Here's the definition of precipitation static.

http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_precipitation_static.html
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Wes wrote:
Hmm. I've lived in AZ for over 60 years (almost 50 of them as a ham)
and am well familiar with dust storms and static build up on antennas
but I've never heard of it being called precipitation static.

Here's the definition of precipitation static.

http://www.atis.org/tg2k/_precipitation_static.html
--


I don't give a damn what they call it, here's a definition of
precipitation:

precipitation n. a: a deposit on the earth of hail, mist, rain, sleet
or snow: also: the quantity of water deposited.

I don't see anything about dirt.



Wes N7WS

Wes wrote:
I don't give a damn what they call it, here's a definition of
precipitation:

precipitation n. a: a deposit on the earth of hail, mist, rain, sleet
or snow: also: the quantity of water deposited.

I don't see anything about dirt.

As you know, words often have a different technical
meaning than their common Webster's dictionary meaning.
The adjective "precipitation" modifying "static" or
"noise" has been extended to dust as well as rain or
snow, just as the p-static definition indicates.

Airplanes flying through rain, snow, and dust exhibit
the same physical phenomena so dust has been included
as one of the causes of precipitation static. A web
search will prove that to be true. Example quotes:

************************************************** *****************

Volume 2, Issue 4 (December 1945)
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences

Article: pp. 205–213 | PDF (801K)
METEOROLOGICAL ASPECTS OF PRECIPITATION STATIC

Robert C. Edwards, Lieutenant U.S.N.R. and George W. Brock,
Captain U. S. A. A. F.

ABSTRACT

*Precipitation static*, a result of electrification of aircraft
in flight, can cause loss of radio communication for long periods
of time. Electrification may consist of either of two types,
“autogenous” or “exogenous” electrification; autogenous electrification
occurs when snow, *dust* or rain strike the surface of the aircraft,
while exogenous electrification results from an aircraft being placed in
a pre-existing atmospheric electric field. Serious autogenous
electrification occurs only in snow and *dust* storms; ...

************************************************** ***********

Please note the date. Precipitation static from dust has been
recognized for more than half a century. There are many more
references available. One advertisement asks the following
question:

************************************************** ***********

Ads by GoooooogleMicro Air *Dust* Collectors
Tired of cleaning electrostatic *precipitator* cells?
www.microaironline.com

************************************************** ************

SAE Technical Papers
Title: *Precipitation-Static* (P-Static) Overview of Composite
Aircraft, Document Number: 2001-01-2933

Author(s):
Jerry W. Thornell - The Boeing Co.

Abstract:
Aircraft charging due to *p-static* results from two atmospheric
conditions: 1) the vehicle's presence in a thunderstorm, and 2)
the triboelectric charging (frictional) caused by neutral snow,
rain, or *dust* particle bombardment of the vehicle frontal surface.

************************************************** ******************

Development of Transparent Materials Which Reduce Effects of
*Precipitation Static* in Aircraft
Authors: M. U. Cohen; George A. Dalin; BALCO RESEARCH LABS NEWARK NJ

Abstract: Methods of laying a transparent electrically conductive
film on plastic airplane canopies are discussed. The purpose of
such films is to conduct to the aircraft frame the static charges
developed on the canopies by friction with air, *dust*, snow, etc.,
during flight.

************************************************** ******************

From: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0705.html

7-5-11. Precipitation Static

a. *Precipitation static* is caused by aircraft in flight coming in
contact with uncharged particles. These particles can be rain, snow,
fog, sleet, hail, volcanic ash, *dust*; any solid or liquid particles.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Thank you Cecil for your patience and service to ham radio humanity in
opening eyes and minds of many of us regardless of being shot at by some of
the all-knowing.

73 and Merry Christmas to all!

Yuri, K3BU


"Cecil Moore" wrote in message
...
Wes wrote:
I don't give a damn what they call it, here's a definition of
precipitation:

precipitation n. a: a deposit on the earth of hail, mist, rain, sleet
or snow: also: the quantity of water deposited.

I don't see anything about dirt.

As you know, words often have a different technical
meaning than their common Webster's dictionary meaning.
The adjective "precipitation" modifying "static" or
"noise" has been extended to dust as well as rain or
snow, just as the p-static definition indicates.

Airplanes flying through rain, snow, and dust exhibit
the same physical phenomena so dust has been included
as one of the causes of precipitation static. A web
search will prove that to be true. Example quotes:

************************************************** *****************

Volume 2, Issue 4 (December 1945)
Journal of the Atmospheric Sciences

Article: pp. 205–213 | PDF (801K)
METEOROLOGICAL ASPECTS OF PRECIPITATION STATIC

Robert C. Edwards, Lieutenant U.S.N.R. and George W. Brock,
Captain U. S. A. A. F.

ABSTRACT

*Precipitation static*, a result of electrification of aircraft
in flight, can cause loss of radio communication for long periods
of time. Electrification may consist of either of two types,
“autogenous” or “exogenous” electrification; autogenous electrification
occurs when snow, *dust* or rain strike the surface of the aircraft,
while exogenous electrification results from an aircraft being placed in
a pre-existing atmospheric electric field. Serious autogenous
electrification occurs only in snow and *dust* storms; ...

************************************************** ***********

Please note the date. Precipitation static from dust has been
recognized for more than half a century. There are many more
references available. One advertisement asks the following
question:

************************************************** ***********

Ads by GoooooogleMicro Air *Dust* Collectors
Tired of cleaning electrostatic *precipitator* cells?
www.microaironline.com

************************************************** ************

SAE Technical Papers
Title: *Precipitation-Static* (P-Static) Overview of Composite
Aircraft, Document Number: 2001-01-2933

Author(s):
Jerry W. Thornell - The Boeing Co.

Abstract:
Aircraft charging due to *p-static* results from two atmospheric
conditions: 1) the vehicle's presence in a thunderstorm, and 2)
the triboelectric charging (frictional) caused by neutral snow,
rain, or *dust* particle bombardment of the vehicle frontal surface.

************************************************** ******************

Development of Transparent Materials Which Reduce Effects of
*Precipitation Static* in Aircraft
Authors: M. U. Cohen; George A. Dalin; BALCO RESEARCH LABS NEWARK NJ

Abstract: Methods of laying a transparent electrically conductive
film on plastic airplane canopies are discussed. The purpose of
such films is to conduct to the aircraft frame the static charges
developed on the canopies by friction with air, *dust*, snow, etc.,
during flight.

************************************************** ******************

From: http://www.faa.gov/ATpubs/AIM/Chap7/aim0705.html

7-5-11. Precipitation Static

a. *Precipitation static* is caused by aircraft in flight coming in
contact with uncharged particles. These particles can be rain, snow,
fog, sleet, hail, volcanic ash, *dust*; any solid or liquid particles.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

I have flown through dry snow over the Great Lakes that completely
desensed the receivers in the airplane - and this was a plane equipped
with static discharge wicks... Rising noise to a roar, big discharge
POP, receiver back on line for about 3-5 seconds until the rising roar
blocks it up again- total cycle 15 to 20 seconds, only able to hear ATC
for 3 to 5 seconds out of that... Not fun at O'dark thirty, it is 10F
outside, you won't survive a ditching into the water, and your VOR
receiver can't tell you where Windsor is...

Yes, I believe in P-Static...

denny

Cecil Moore wrote:
Wes wrote:
I don't give a damn what they call it, here's a definition of
precipitation:

Cecil Moore wrote:

During AZ desert
windstorms, this new G5RV of mine arced at the coax
connector due to precipitation static, sometimes several
times per second.

Hi Cecil -
Just a small bit of elaboration on your point - the arc is the result
of the accumulation of a sufficient amount of charge to facilitate an
electrical discharge in air. Static is heard in the receiver as the
charge is being acquired, but an AGC limited pop would be heard when
an arc occurs. (And sometimes nothing at all after the latter :-)

Putting up a 40m folded dipole caused
the arcing to cease.

That's right. The accumulated electrostatic charge would be
distributed uniformly along the length of such an antenna. Both ends
of the antenna would therefore be at the same potential, so there is
no propensity to arc across them. If at least one of the antenna
terminals on the rig is grounded, the likelihood that the antenna will
accumulate a significant amount of charge is greatly reduced. The
antenna is still just as likely to produce precipitation static noise
however. If the receiver input was strictly differential, then it
would indeed be completely insensitive to common mode signals and noise.

73, ac6xg

Jim Kelley wrote:
The antenna is still just as
likely to produce precipitation static noise however.

It is unlikely that dissimilar antennas will
produce identical responses to anything including
static.
--
73, Cecil http://www.w5dxp.com

Cecil Moore wrote:
Jim Kelley wrote:

The antenna is still just as likely to produce precipitation static
noise however.


It is unlikely that dissimilar antennas will
produce identical responses to anything including
static.

Sorry if I gave that impression. I simply meant that a folded dipole
is just as likely to produce precipitation static noise as a dipole
antenna.

Merry Christmas de AC6XG