Jeff wrote:
" However, actual statute law trumps bureaucracy. The Federal Register
merely
records laws that have already been enacted. The Constitution was in
effect prior to the existence of a FR and nowhere is the FR mentioned in
today's constitution.

True, but is there some other piece of Statute Law that states that
legislation cannot come into force until it has been promulgated in the
Federal Register?

No - but there doesn't have to be.

The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand
the test of the Report and Order.


FCC 06-178

can be downloaded from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-178A1.pdf

in PDF

On Sheet 17 (of 41) it says:

"VI. ORDERING CLAUSES

........

40. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Part 97 of the Commission's Rules IS
AMENDED as specified in Appendix A, effective [30 days after
publication in the
Federal Register]."

There's no need of any external law tying FCC action to the Federal
Register, because
the FCC did that as part of the R&O itself, rather than specifying an
effective date.

AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

73 de Jim, N2EY

Stefan Wolfe wrote:
...
So, tell me how is there a "possibility" that amateur radio will change
significantly when the impact of no code testing is obviously so small?



Simple, take for example einstein, tesla, hawkins, they would only need
to pass the written and learn no new pseudo-musical skills/talents like
morse ...

.... who knows, perhaps if einstein were still alive he might even bother
getting a license now!

JS

Cecil Moore wrote:

Stefan Wolfe wrote:

legislators make laws without knowing when they will actually become
effective.


Heck, legislators often make ineffective laws.

We now have a USA Congress that was elected on an anti-Iraq war platform.
Yesterday the key Democrats made the evening news in stating that they won't
vote to cut off $$$ for the war. But, they will provide a non-binding resolution
that the 'Sense of Congress' disapproves of the war. Heck, we knew that before
the fools got sworn in!

If you're against the war, vote against paying for the war!! [become responsible
.... not a wishy washy dish-rag!] AKA Put up or shut up!

/s/ DD, W1MCE

Section VI ORDERING CLAUSES, Paragraph 40

"It is further ordered That Part 97 of the Commission's rules IS AMENDED as
specified in Appendix A, effective [30 Days after publication in the Federal
Register]."

So, watch the FR.

wrote:

Jeff wrote:

" However, actual statute law trumps bureaucracy. The Federal Register
merely

records laws that have already been enacted. The Constitution was in
effect prior to the existence of a FR and nowhere is the FR mentioned in
today's constitution.

True, but is there some other piece of Statute Law that states that
legislation cannot come into force until it has been promulgated in the
Federal Register?


No - but there doesn't have to be.

The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand
the test of the Report and Order.


FCC 06-178

can be downloaded from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-178A1.pdf

in PDF

On Sheet 17 (of 41) it says:

"VI. ORDERING CLAUSES

.......

40. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Part 97 of the Commission's Rules IS
AMENDED as specified in Appendix A, effective [30 days after
publication in the
Federal Register]."

There's no need of any external law tying FCC action to the Federal
Register, because
the FCC did that as part of the R&O itself, rather than specifying an
effective date.

AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

73 de Jim, N2EY

wrote in message
ups.com...
t some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand
the test of the Report and Order.

Well, I did understand the Morse test but I confess that I never did
understand the test of the Report and Order. :-))

"John Smith I" wrote in message
...
Stefan Wolfe wrote:
...
So, tell me how is there a "possibility" that amateur radio will change
significantly when the impact of no code testing is obviously so small?



Simple, take for example einstein, tesla, hawkins, they would only need to
pass the written and learn no new pseudo-musical skills/talents like morse
...

I notice that you keep saying "hawkins". You are referring to Steven
Hawking, correct?

wrote in message
ups.com...
The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand the test of the Report and Order.

I believe Jim meant "text" not "test" above - an easy typo to make.


FCC 06-178

can be downloaded from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-178A1.pdf

in PDF

On Sheet 17 (of 41) it says:

"VI. ORDERING CLAUSES

.......

40. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Part 97 of the Commission's Rules IS
AMENDED as specified in Appendix A, effective [30 days after
publication in the
Federal Register]."

There's no need of any external law tying FCC action to the Federal
Register, because
the FCC did that as part of the R&O itself, rather than specifying an
effective date.

There is an "external law" which ties all federal agency rulemakings to the
Federal Register.

It's called the Administrative Procedures Act and it's Title 5 USC, Chapter
5, sections 511-599.

The Administrative Procedure Act (APA) is the law under which some 55 U.S.
government federal regulatory agencies like the FDA and EPA (and FCC)
create the rules and regulations necessary to implement and enforce major
legislative acts such as the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, Clean Air Act or
Occupational Health and Safety Act (and the Communications Act, as
ammended).



AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

I'm sure that the delay (not abnormal at all) in publishing in the FR is
just that - the bureaucracy.

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

True - but the APA requires that there be very good reasons for not giving
the citizenry due and reasonable notice before new regulations take effect.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

Agreed ...
73,
Carl - wk3c

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand the test of the Report and Order.

AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

I'm sure that the delay (not abnormal at all) in publishing in the FR is
just that - the bureaucracy.

indeed it is normal I am just hoping that we will not soon start see
ProCode insisting well maybe trhey changed their mind

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

True - but the APA requires that there be very good reasons for not giving
the citizenry due and reasonable notice before new regulations take effect.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

Agreed ...

and they grind slowly and frankly they grind slower for me than you and
Jim , Carl I am one of the few people in point of fact diretly affected
by them
73,
Carl - wk3c

"an_old_friend" wrote in message
ps.com...

Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand the test of the Report and Order.

AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

I'm sure that the delay (not abnormal at all) in publishing in the FR is
just that - the bureaucracy.

indeed it is normal I am just hoping that we will not soon start see
ProCode insisting well maybe trhey changed their mind

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

True - but the APA requires that there be very good reasons for not
giving
the citizenry due and reasonable notice before new regulations take
effect.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

Agreed ...

and they grind slowly and frankly they grind slower for me than you and
Jim , Carl I am one of the few people in point of fact diretly affected
by them

Mark, I think they just don't want you on HF. What do you think?



Posted Via Usenet.com Premium Usenet Newsgroup Services
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Carl R. Stevenson wrote:
wrote in message
ups.com...
The basic problem is that some folks either didn't read or didn't
understand the test of the Report and Order.

I believe Jim meant "text" not "test" above - an easy typo to make.

Yep!

FCC 06-178

can be downloaded from:

http://hraunfoss.fcc.gov/edocs_publi...C-06-178A1.pdf

in PDF

On Sheet 17 (of 41) it says:

"VI. ORDERING CLAUSES

.......

40. IT IS FURTHER ORDERED that Part 97 of the Commission's Rules IS
AMENDED as specified in Appendix A, effective [30 days after
publication in the
Federal Register]."

There's no need of any external law tying FCC action to the Federal
Register, because
the FCC did that as part of the R&O itself, rather than specifying an
effective date.

There is an "external law" which ties all federal agency rulemakings to the
Federal Register.

It's called the Administrative Procedures Act and it's Title 5 USC, Chapter
5, sections 511-599.

The Administrative Procedure Act (APA) is the law under which some 55 U.S.
government federal regulatory agencies like the FDA and EPA (and FCC)
create the rules and regulations necessary to implement and enforce major
legislative acts such as the Food Drug and Cosmetic Act, Clean Air Act or
Occupational Health and Safety Act (and the Communications Act, as
ammended).

I did not know that! Thanks Carl!

It makes perfect sense that there would be legislation requiring the
publication of routine new rules in the Federal Register before they
become effective.

AFAIK, it's done this way to avoid conflicts. The R&O is effectively
"out there" for anyone to
look at, but if there were some sort of conflict with another govt.
agency, etc., or a mistake in the R&O, FCC could take action before
the effective date, and/or hold up implementation by not
publishing. That's extremely doubtful in this case - the delay in
getting the R&O published
is almost certainly simple bureaucratic procedure.

I'm sure that the delay (not abnormal at all) in publishing in the FR is
just that - the bureaucracy.

Agreed.

Also, after having made a couple of obvious typos and contradictions in
the "omnibus" R&O, FCC might be taking extra measures to be sure that
sort of thing isn't in this one.

Not all FCC actions go through that procedure. Emergency declarations
are one example - they're usually effective immediately.

True - but the APA requires that there be very good reasons for not giving
the citizenry due and reasonable notice before new regulations take effect.

Those emergency declarations are the exceptions that prove the rule
IMHO.

Sooner or later all the wheels will turn!

Agreed ...

Next Tuesday at the soonest.

73 de Jim, N2EY