On 28 Jan 2004 06:32:47 GMT, (Tdonaly) wrote:

|Richard wrote,
|
|Hi Fellows,
|
|I dunno. When I read it, it looked like a reference to graphical
|analysis or the projection of a point that represents a mean within a
|surface area (which, again, harkens back to the "sinusoidal" current
|distribution curve).
|
|73's
|Richard Clark, KB7QHC
|
|
|Hi Richard,
| it would be interesting, and very useful, too, if it were
|possible to characterize radiation resistance this way. I was hoping
|Wes would enlighten us.

Let's let Hansen do that.

http://www.qsl.net/n7ws/HansenPaper.pdf

Wes wrote,
On 28 Jan 2004 06:32:47 GMT, (Tdonaly) wrote:

|Richard wrote,
|
|Hi Fellows,
|
|I dunno. When I read it, it looked like a reference to graphical
|analysis or the projection of a point that represents a mean within a
|surface area (which, again, harkens back to the "sinusoidal" current
|distribution curve).
|
|73's
|Richard Clark, KB7QHC
|
|
|Hi Richard,
| it would be interesting, and very useful, too, if it were
|possible to characterize radiation resistance this way. I was hoping
|Wes would enlighten us.

Let's let Hansen do that.

http://www.qsl.net/n7ws/HansenPaper.pdf

O.k., so he is writing about a moment method analysis. I hope Yuri and
Cecil read this along with your results, Wes. Cecil can't possibly argue
with this... I take that back, Cecil could argue with the Devil about how
hot hell should be, so maybe this won't stop him after all.
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

On 29 Jan 2004 00:03:45 GMT, (Tdonaly) wrote:


|
|O.k., so he is writing about a moment method analysis. I hope Yuri and
|Cecil read this along with your results, Wes. Cecil can't possibly argue
|with this... I take that back, Cecil could argue with the Devil about how
|hot hell should be, so maybe this won't stop him after all.

Hi Tom,

Cecil and Yuri have been uncharacteristically silent, at least about
this thread since I started it. Frankly I expected some flak.

Regards,

Wes

Cecil and Yuri have been uncharacteristically silent, at least about
this thread since I started it. Frankly I expected some flak.

Regards,

Wes



Howdy anteneers,
I have been characteristically absent from the freezing NE, enjoying Bahama
Mammas near Nassau, shaking off cold or flu, operating as C6AYB in CQ 160m
contest (beat world Low Power world record) with IC706 and piece of wire in the
form of Half Sloper from the balcony down to a palm tree and getting some badly
needed tan for my sickly pale complexion. Sorry for missing some of the coil
battles.

As far as flak, I glanced over the mentioned paper and deducted that relates to
some calculated "facts" rather than measured. So far I have concluded that we
have reached point of (dis)agreement between two sides, and as I mentioned,
there is not much point in arguing. W8JI tried to prove his "truth," only to
measure differences in coil current (not showing details about the setup) and
while insisting he is right, proving that he is wrong. As I mentioned, weather
permitting, I will do more measurements, describe them in an article. In the
mean time, if anyone else made the measurements, please describe them along
with the description of setup (length of radiator parts, placements of coil,
frequencies, etc.) Otherwise, you have to patient until I get around doing it,
I have life and priorities outside of NG.

I started reading Marc Seifer book "Wizard" - The life and times of Nikola
Tesla, fascinating insight and chronology of this greatest engineering genius
and the hurdles he had to overcome from the flat earth society.

73 Yuri, K3BU

Tdonaly wrote:
O.k., so he is writing about a moment method analysis. I hope Yuri and
Cecil read this along with your results, Wes. Cecil can't possibly argue
with this... I take that back, Cecil could argue with the Devil about how
hot hell should be, so maybe this won't stop him after all.

I will argue about any software package that doesn't agree with reality.
If the moment method assumes coils with no distributed capacitance, it
is wrong in certain cases. Will the moment method simulate the 180 degree
phase shift in Kraus' self-resonant loading coils?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Wes Stewart wrote:
Cecil and Yuri have been uncharacteristically silent, at least about
this thread since I started it. Frankly I expected some flak.

I haven't been paying attention. What's the bottom line? Another
software package that assumes current travels through a coil at
faster than the speed of light?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil wrote,

Tdonaly wrote:
O.k., so he is writing about a moment method analysis. I hope Yuri and
Cecil read this along with your results, Wes. Cecil can't possibly argue
with this... I take that back, Cecil could argue with the Devil about how
hot hell should be, so maybe this won't stop him after all.

I will argue about any software package that doesn't agree with reality.
If the moment method assumes coils with no distributed capacitance, it
is wrong in certain cases. Will the moment method simulate the 180 degree
phase shift in Kraus' self-resonant loading coils?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


Have you ever actually made one of these magical coils, Cecil? If you
have, will you tell me how to do it? Did you read Wes' material?
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

Tdonaly wrote:
Have you ever actually made one of these magical coils, Cecil? If you
have, will you tell me how to do it?

It ain't rocket science, Tom, and it ain't magic. Do you understand self-
resonance? Every coil is self-resonant on some frequency. Build the antenna
for whatever that frequency is. My Diamond 440 MHz mobile antenna uses a
phase reversing coil to phase a 1/4WL element with the 1/2WL element
directly above yielding a fair amount of gain over a single 1/4WL element.

Did you read Wes' material?

That .pdf file locks up my computer during downloading. I may
need an upgrade to my Adobe Acrobat reader.
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp



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Cecil wrote,

Wes Stewart wrote:
Cecil and Yuri have been uncharacteristically silent, at least about
this thread since I started it. Frankly I expected some flak.

I haven't been paying attention. What's the bottom line? Another
software package that assumes current travels through a coil at
faster than the speed of light?
--
73, Cecil http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp


How fast does light travel in copper, Cecil?
73,
Tom Donaly, KA6RUH

On Wed, 28 Jan 2004 22:06:11 -0600, Cecil Moore
wrote:

|Tdonaly wrote:
| O.k., so he is writing about a moment method analysis. I hope Yuri and
| Cecil read this along with your results, Wes. Cecil can't possibly argue
| with this... I take that back, Cecil could argue with the Devil about how
| hot hell should be, so maybe this won't stop him after all.
|
|I will argue about any software package that doesn't agree with reality.

So "reality" exists when the software gives you the answer you expect:

http://www.qsl.net/w5dxp/current.htm

but is useless otherwise? You trust it to analyze linear conductors
and inductive stubs that have inductance and capacitance per unit
length but conclude that it is flawed when the conductor is coiled up
a bit. Interesting.


|If the moment method assumes coils with no distributed capacitance,

Did you bother to read Rhea's paper?

http://www.eagleware.com/pdf/apps/20...ngSolenoid.pdf


| it
|is wrong in certain cases. Will the moment method simulate the 180 degree
|phase shift in Kraus' self-resonant loading coils?